Balance Shafts removal this weekend!!(hopefully), couple questions.

[undrcroft]

well its been on delay, but hopefully doing the balance shaft removal this weekend on my 92 4cyl. just had a couple questions. 1. any really good oil change products to flush all the oil sludge out? and where do they sell it?
2. Is there nothing i need to do after taking the shafts out to stop oil leaks? the dodge and nissan places talk about kits coming with stuff to put in. And having to seal stuff for leaks. Just take the exhaust off, drop the oil pan, go up in there, take the shaft assembly off. take the shafts, shims and crap out, and bolt the assem. back on. Is this all?
3. and anyone have bad opinons on header wrap? I know about the gains, but what about the adverse effects? Heard it causes the piping to get so hot it can wear away the metal, cause cracks and shorten the life of the header. true?I don't expect to have the car for 10 years but i would like the headers to last atleast 3-4yrs

[Nick]

i don't know about the other stuff, but for the engine flush you can get it in the additives section of most stores, walmart has it, just called engine flush, put it in, idle the car for 5-10 minutes and drain the oil

all it is really is diesel fuel, in aviation applications they will inject gas to the oil to help it start on really cold days, its safe for the engine, just don't go anywhere with the stuff in there

[undrcroft]

no one kind better than the other?

[Nick]

not really, like i said its diesel fuel, i think GUNK makes one, that's a reputable name...

[crazy_camry]

Originally posted by undrcroft
3. and anyone have bad opinons on header wrap? I know about the gains, but what about the adverse effects? Heard it causes the piping to get so hot it can wear away the metal, cause cracks and shorten the life of the header. true?I don't expect to have the car for 10 years but i would like the headers to last atleast 3-4yrs

there was a recent thread in the hardcore section, have a look at that, had some info.

[88 LE]

Originally posted by undrcroft
Is there nothing i need to do after taking the shafts out to stop oil leaks?

Just make sure that you put sealant (RTV silicone) on the oil pan before you bolt it backup. You don't want that bitch to leak.

Felpro makes a cork gasket for the oil pan. Get one if you want or you can just use RTV silicone.

Also make sure that you scrape off all the old silicone sealant from the oil pan and block.

Just take the exhaust off, drop the oil pan, go up in there, take the shaft assembly off. take the shafts, shims and crap out, and bolt the assem. back on. Is this all?

Just unbolt the whole assembly and remove it. No need to take it apart.

Also remove the shims and dowel pins.

Heres some pics I took from the teardown of my friends 5S-FE.

Balance shaft assembly:




Block with crank. Pistons, rods, and balance shaft assembly removed:

[87Camry5Speed]

Uhh... I must be a dumbass but since when was it a good idea to remove the balance shafts? They're intended to counteract vibration within the engine, which I'd see as a good thing with our buzzy little bombers. Being that the weight loss must be minimal without them, what are the pros of taking them out?

I'd see maybe a power gain, for example look at the GM Quad 4 engine. Back in the early 90s this was a 190 hp powerhouse without any forced induction. By the mid 90s, after numerous improvements and the addition of a balance shaft the motor was good for no more than 150. The motor was more civilized but not as powerful.

I've been mulling over this all day... help! I don't intend to do this to my car but I can't see the rationale behind it either.

Steve

[undrcroft]

well first to 88LE: I'm actually going to put in the oil pan gasket and RTV. just to make sure.
With the assembly, basically just take out the red waffle looking thing in your pic(the assem.) and the shafts will come out with it? Just take the assem. out and dont put it back in? leave it out with the shafts? so the crank will just be all by itself. Also, is there an easy way to spot the shims and dowel pins. Pobably still going to be alot of oil so if my cousin can't spot them, i'd like to know pretty clearly so i can get them and this job won't destroy my engine.
And thanks for the pics man. Lotta help.

to 3sfe. the balance shafts do absorb engine vibrations but only vibration that would be felt externally(won't wear away at the engine). you'll just feel more shake inside the car. the advantages however are that the 2 balance shafts are a parasitic drain on the crank. i forget what they weigh but whatever it is, the crank has to expend horsepower constantly to turn that weight. Freeing up weight on the crank without any adverse effects to the engine, MUY BUENO!!! Check out the first post to for some good insite on this.
http://www.toyotanation.com/showthre...950#post174950
first half of topic is some stuff on flywheels and pulleys, good stuff, then i asked the balance shaft question. First few people dissed the idea then some came around on it.

[Nick]

he's our space monkey, first operation of this kind on TN and we'll study the effects and draw our own conclusions about toyota...

[88 LE]

Originally posted by 3SFECamry
I've been mulling over this all day... help! I don't intend to do this to my car but I can't see the rationale behind it either.

3S-FE's don't have a balance shaft assembly so you can stop mulling or whatever your doing.

[88 LE]

Originally posted by undrcroft
well first to 88LE: I'm actually going to put in the oil pan gasket and RTV. just to make sure.

Good idea.

Just make sure that you use enough RTV silicone to get a good seal. My friend didn't use enough on his oil pan and it leaked.

With the assembly, basically just take out the red waffle looking thing in your pic(the assem.) and the shafts will come out with it?

Yup. The shafts (balance shafts) are part of the assembly.

Just unbolt it and it'll come right off. 6 bolts on the edge of the assembly.

Just take the assem. out and dont put it back in?

Yup.

leave it out with the shafts? so the crank will just be all by itself.

Yes.

If you remove more then 6 bolts from the block and your left with just a crank you did something wrong.

Also, is there an easy way to spot the shims and dowel pins.

Shims are sandwiched between balance shaft assembly and block. Their thin pieces of metal.

The dowel pins are inserted into the block. Their little metal tubes inserted into the block (the bolt holes for the balance shaft assembly).

Refer to the pics I posted.

And thanks for the pics man. Lotta help.

No prob.

[undrcroft]

sorry, just one more thing.
How many shims and dowel pins are there so i make sure i get them all out?
and which six bolts is it on the assem.? it looks like theres 12 on there. 6 on each side with 3 inner 3 outer. Is it the the 3 bolts closest to the center of the assem. or the 3 bolts the farthest away from the center? Its the 3 outermost ones on each side right?
thanks

[88 LE]

Originally posted by undrcroft
How many shims and dowel pins are there so i make sure i get them all out?

2 shims and 6 dowel pins.

and which six bolts is it on the assem.? it looks like theres 12 on there. 6 on each side with 3 inner 3 outer. Is it the the 3 bolts closest to the center of the assem. or the 3 bolts the farthest away from the center? Its the 3 outermost ones on each side right?

Its the 3 outermost bolts on each side. The bolts go into the block.

Heres some pics that I Photoshopped.

[Meisner]

So far I have removed & replaced my oil pan 5 or 6 times and have always used both a Felpro cork gasket and a thin coat of RTV on both side of the cork. I have never had a leak!

The last time I rebuilt my 5s-fe, I looked closely at removing the balance shaft. I found there was an oil port on the bottom of the block that fed pressurized oil into the balance shaft. If you just remove the assembly, you will lose oil pressure. This is the main reason I did not remove it.

Don't you need to plug that passage to keep the oil pressure up?

Steve

[undrcroft]

is there any truth to this? I wasn't able to do it this weekend. its been raining for like the last three weeks. would this be a problem? In haynes on the part about installation of the balance assem. back into the car it never mentioned the oil line. doesn't the oil just get shot into the assem. to lube it and then flow out of the assem to the oil pan? if i take the assem. off wouldn't that oil just drop straight to the pan and cut out the middle man?