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#16 Old 10-12-2008, 11:54 PM
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4th Generation

After fiddling it for 3 days, its finally done. Let me break it down and add a few items that I did.

Followed BMR's DIY throughout but without turning the whole knuckle assembly. There is an arm (control?) that connects to the front sway bar that needs to be disassembled. The axle nut is a bear to remove. The one thing I noticed that helped, aside from buying H.F. 18" breaker bar, is to put the wheel back and use the weight of the car to counter the axle nut. That did the trick.

I asked before why a "marking is needed" to keep alignment. I noticed there is only one part that needs that. The arm that connects to the tie rod. The rest (ball joint, shocks) are mounted in a fixed position.

I also changed out my shocks (whole unit). The front KYB GR-2 are about 6 years old. It was getting to a point of sloppy when going over road bumps. I ordered 2 Monroe Quick Struts at Kragen for about $400 after tax. If you call in the order the day before, they will give a 10% off the order. I was looking for the "Save the Squirrel" rebate but it had already expired. Changing the shock unit was a no brainer.

As for the knuckle assembly, had it done at Pep Boys for about $35 per hub. That's decent since other shops I called wanted 45. I thought about the tool that DaveMac2 used and I purchased one at Harbor Freight for this job, never really used it. Its a neat tool and could have work but you still need to pull the axle out of the knuckle and hub to gain access from the back. I will return this tool back and get a refund.

Putting back is the reverse of the DIY. Same thing goes to tightening the axle nut. Put wheel back and use the car's weight as leverage. Remove wheel and finish with the nut cap and cotter pin.

Additional parts that you REALLY need before you start this project is a deep 30 MM Axle nut socket, good and long breaker bar, cotter pins (you can get a set at Kragen for about 1.99 - 144 pcs.).

BMR - the car is about 155K miles. CV is still original and still good. I will keep her as it is until the need arises for the CV to be replaced. As for the bearing, one was getting rusted and dry hence the grinding noise but the other one was still good. I had it replace anyway because of age.

Thanks for the advices and tips. Couldn't have done it without your input.

kamrhee

---------------------------
1998 Camry LE 5s-fe (Stock)
2002 Toyota Highlander 1mz-fe (Stock)

My other car is a Bianchi

Last edited by kamrhee; 10-12-2008 at 11:56 PM.
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#17 Old 10-13-2008, 11:59 AM
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Hi BMR,

Once again, Very good DIY for the front end. Do you have the torque for the front axle nuts. Also, where I can get the torque for most of the nuts. Any specific books?

Thanks,
Dom
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#18 Old 10-13-2008, 01:14 PM
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I think I can get the torque values for you from my Haynes manual. I'll post 'em tonite probably.

1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, dark emerald pearl, owned since new. Replaced HGs @332k, now at 365k miles
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, super white II, acquired w/ 139k, now at 306k
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung, Ohlins rear shock, Race Tech cartridge emulators in forks, 49k
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#19 Old 10-13-2008, 09:42 PM
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Here ya go. All values are in ft-lbs

Drive axle hub nut - 217
Balljoint to control arm bolt & nuts - 94
Balljoint to steering knuckle nut - 90 (Just in case you replace it; I didn't)
Tie rod end to steering knuckle nut - 36
Strut to steering knuckle bolts/nuts - 156

Those are for '92 thru '95 Camrys per my Haynes manual, which was published in 1995. So they may be good for later years, but they also may be out of date if Toyota has changed their specs since then.

I'll add those to my original post as well.

1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, dark emerald pearl, owned since new. Replaced HGs @332k, now at 365k miles
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, super white II, acquired w/ 139k, now at 306k
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung, Ohlins rear shock, Race Tech cartridge emulators in forks, 49k

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#20 Old 04-25-2009, 04:04 PM
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Superb guide. It also applies to a '98 Sienna. One useful tip for separating the tie rod from the steering knuckle that I have used over the years in trucks all the way up to ex-German army M.A.N.s is to unscrew the castellated nut until it is flush with the end of the threaded portion, then apply pressure with a jack (a lot) and tap the knuckle with a heavy hammer. It has always worked for me, although on occasions I have had to increase the lift on the jack until the vehicle is just coming off the axle stand. Keep your fingers away from the assembly because when it does separate, it does so very quickly with a loud crack! I have never damaged a tie rod end by this method, and it has always worked.
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#21 Old 04-25-2009, 07:18 PM
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Thanks scotjack. And thanks for the tip on separating tie rods.

1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, dark emerald pearl, owned since new. Replaced HGs @332k, now at 365k miles
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, super white II, acquired w/ 139k, now at 306k
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung, Ohlins rear shock, Race Tech cartridge emulators in forks, 49k
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#22 Old 04-25-2009, 08:40 PM
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You are very welcome. I took both hubs off this morning without difficulty, and will have the new bearings pressed in on Monday at one of our local machine shops. When I lived in Africa I was pretty adept at rigging up my own press with hydraulic jacks and anything solid, but for the thirty or forty bucks it will cost me to have it done in a shop, it's just not worth it. Plus, they always do a great job of cleaning any assemblies they work on. Its almost like everything is new!
Do you happen to know the relevant torque settings for a 98' Sienna?
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#23 Old 04-25-2009, 10:02 PM
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Sorry, no I don't. Since the Sienna is based on the Camry platform, I would guess they're the same, but it would be best to verify them.

1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, dark emerald pearl, owned since new. Replaced HGs @332k, now at 365k miles
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, super white II, acquired w/ 139k, now at 306k
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung, Ohlins rear shock, Race Tech cartridge emulators in forks, 49k
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#24 Old 06-26-2010, 11:55 PM
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Thanks for that good pictorial description of how to do it. It applies to the 1989 model too. Just one thing; theres 2 bolts that hold a ball joint to the knuckle that are almost the same as the 2 bolts that hold the caliper on. The only difference is the caliper ones are a tad shorter, if you mix them up like someone I know did, and put the long ones in the caliper, they stick out the end of the hole and onto the disc, preventing the wheel from turning. Easy mistake to make, so be careful. This doesnt apply to the model BMR has, so it must be just 1989 and earlier.Heres to you BMR.

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#25 Old 07-28-2010, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotjack View Post
Superb guide. It also applies to a '98 Sienna. One useful tip for separating the tie rod from the steering knuckle that I have used over the years in trucks all the way up to ex-German army M.A.N.s is to unscrew the castellated nut until it is flush with the end of the threaded portion, then apply pressure with a jack (a lot) and tap the knuckle with a heavy hammer. It has always worked for me, although on occasions I have had to increase the lift on the jack until the vehicle is just coming off the axle stand. Keep your fingers away from the assembly because when it does separate, it does so very quickly with a loud crack! I have never damaged a tie rod end by this method, and it has always worked.

This is also the method I use! Great stuff, and that added weight of the vehical is a HUGE help when it comes to minnesota rust.
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#26 Old 09-06-2010, 12:59 AM
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Hi BMR
I am facing a pesky issue of front end vibrations in my car and have replaced everything else other than Tires and wheel bearings! I have few questions for you:
-What prompted you to zero in on the wheel bearings as root cause of car shake?
-After pressing in the new wheel bearings did you check them for evenness using a dial indicator?


Also let me thank you for your Rear Struts DIY. It helped immensely while doing my rear struts yesterday. Thank you very much.

1995 Camry DX L4 178,6XX miles and counting each mile.... acquired 05/25/2007 at 129K miles
2004 Mazda6 I4 5-Speed Manual 115,500 miles acquired 01/21/2011 at 109,XXX miles

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#27 Old 09-06-2010, 09:14 PM
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No prob, peshwa. Glad I could help.

As for what led me to replace the wheel bearings, the short answer is - the process of elimination. I had tried all the usual stuff to fix vibrations; balancing tires, turning the rotors, alignment, etc. NOTHING seemed to help anymore when I finally decided to replace wheel bearings.

Here's the long version:
When the shaking problem first started, I'd notice it when I was on the brakes, particularly bad at about 70 or 75 MPH. At first, it'd go away when I'd get the rotors turned, but come back within 10k miles or so. After doing that half a dozen times, I had to replace the rotors cuz they were at minimum thickness, and the new ones did the same thing. And sometime after that, turning the rotors did nothing, even though it would shake like crazy, on or off the brakes, but much worse when on the brakes. Somewhere in there, I also replaced the calipers, thinking maybe one was sticking and overheating the rotor and warping it. No improvement.

Then I put a new set of tires on it because they were worn out, which dramatically improved it, but it was still most definitely still there. Sooo, that got me thinking, WHAT in the world would cause the rotors to warp, AND screw up the tires that I hadn't already replaced??? Ball joints?... nah. Mess up the tires yes! But how could that warp rotors??? Bearings were the only thing I could think of. Even though they weren't making any obvious noises, I replaced 'em.

I suspect what was going on was that the bearings had some wobble in them. So the tires were scuffing and wearing out of round. And the rotors were warping because they'd slap the brake pads with every revolution and get hot spots. That's my theory anyway. All I can say for sure is that replacing the bearings definitely fixed it.

Quote:
-After pressing in the new wheel bearings did you check them for evenness using a dial indicator?


Nope, I didn't check them.

1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, dark emerald pearl, owned since new. Replaced HGs @332k, now at 365k miles
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, super white II, acquired w/ 139k, now at 306k
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung, Ohlins rear shock, Race Tech cartridge emulators in forks, 49k
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#28 Old 09-06-2010, 10:51 PM
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Thanks a bunch BMR! You are so helpful...
Did you ever perform the 1 PM-7 PM shake test on your front tires? This test IIRC is supposed to expose wheel bearing issues? IDK
I am hearing popping/thunk noises from my front driver side for past 8 months now. During this time I am on my 3rd CV Axle.
It all started with I driving on a ripped CV boot and grease filled front driver suspension for ~4 months. I swapped out my OEM CV axle with a Kragen reman.2 months later the that side started to make noises (thunk,pop) and I swapped that out with another free Kragen reman. That was in March 2010.
However the thunk/pop seem to subside a bit for 1-2 days and it kept becoming stronger.
Eventually I got fed up with the constant Kragen reman axles and went to local salvage yard. I managed to pull out a CV axle from a 17 year old camry.
All this while I assumed that these noises can come only from a bad CV axle.
So yesterday I swapped out the previous Kragen reman with a toyota OEM axle. It rode fine for exactly 5 miles (I didnt take hard corners though!) at a lowly speed of 20 mph and dang...the thunk/pop noise was back.
I performed the wheel bearing shake test and nada..no play at all. There was play however on 3 PM 9 PM test which I take as normal steering rack movement.
In short below is my situation:
-Car Vibrations above 65 mph.
-Vibrations persist even after I let go of gas. In fact vibrations stabilize/reduce if I step on the gas.
-Thunk/Popping noise while turning on corners and also going straight.
-Visible rotor warpage even on a new rotor.
-Front Driver rotor shows grooving and scaling compared to a much cleaner Front Passenger side rotor.
-Balanced and rebalanced and rotated the tires multiple times.

-No Rumbling noise. (Maybe engine noise drowns the other noises)

Did you see any of these symptoms?

Sorry for the long post and appreciate your inputs very much.

1995 Camry DX L4 178,6XX miles and counting each mile.... acquired 05/25/2007 at 129K miles
2004 Mazda6 I4 5-Speed Manual 115,500 miles acquired 01/21/2011 at 109,XXX miles


Last edited by peshwa; 09-06-2010 at 10:52 PM.
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#29 Old 09-07-2010, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peshwa View Post
Did you ever perform the 1 PM-7 PM shake test on your front tires? This test IIRC is supposed to expose wheel bearing issues?.
Yes, I did. But I couldn't feel any abnormal play. Just like you mentioned, the rack would move a little bit in its mounts. The only thing I noticed about the wheel bearings was that the worst one, the front passenger side, had a stiff spot in its rotation. I'd push on one of the lug bolts to slowly spin it. I had to have the tire, caliper, and rotor off to feel it. And it was quite faint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peshwa View Post
In short below is my situation:
-Car Vibrations above 65 mph.
-Vibrations persist even after I let go of gas. In fact vibrations stabilize/reduce if I step on the gas.
-Thunk/Popping noise while turning on corners and also going straight.
-Visible rotor warpage even on a new rotor.
-Front Driver rotor shows grooving and scaling compared to a much cleaner Front Passenger side rotor.
-Balanced and rebalanced and rotated the tires multiple times.
-No Rumbling noise. (Maybe engine noise drowns the other noises)

Did you see any of these symptoms?
- Vibes above 65 - Yes. Oh, I forgot to mention, towards the end, I also could see the right front fender bob up and down a little (like 1/4 inch) in synch with tire rotation at about 16 to 18 MPH. That was just before the new tires, so I don't know if that was due to the wheel bearing, or the tire being worn out of round. It's also what got me thinking it could be wheel bearings.
- Vibes less on the gas, more off the gas - Yes, sorta. But mine didn't vary with acceleration. It was always there.
- Thunk/popping noise - Nope. This symptom is where your problem differs. Perhaps it's unrelated to the vibration prob?
- Visible rotor warpage - No, I couldn't see warpage, but back when I was getting them turned, the shop guy doing the job always said they were warped. And the front passenger side was always warped the worst.
- Front driver rotor grooving and scaling - Nope, can't say I ever saw that. When I'd get 'em turned, I'd mark 'em "left" and "right", and tried swapping them to the opposite sides. That didn't help; the passenger side still warped more.
- Balanced and rotated tires multiple times - Yes. I lost count of how many times I got them balanced. I tried several different places too, thinking one of their balancing machines was doing a poor job. They were always out of balance a little, and the vibe would be a little better with them freshly balanced, but the vibe was still there, especially towards the end of the tires' life.
- No rumbling noise - Ya know, I didn't think I heard anything before I changed out the bearings, but after I did I *think* it rode a little quieter, like a really low, barely audible rumbly sort of noise was gone. My hearing isn't the best, but it doesn't suck THAT bad! And I've heard what bad bearings sound like, so I'd know that noise if I heard it loud enough.

Lastly, just to give you some idea, when my vibe was at its worst, at 75 MPH the unoccupied passenger seat-back would bounce about an inch. And the steering wheel would shimmy about a half inch at its rim if I held it lightly with two fingers. It SUCKED driving it at that speed!

1992 Camry LE, V6 (3VZ-FE), ABS brakes, dark emerald pearl, owned since new. Replaced HGs @332k, now at 365k miles
1996 Avalon XLS, ABS brakes, super white II, acquired w/ 139k, now at 306k
2001 Yamaha FZ1, Ivan's jet kit, resprung, Ohlins rear shock, Race Tech cartridge emulators in forks, 49k

Last edited by BMR; 09-07-2010 at 02:03 PM. Reason: correction
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#30 Old 02-08-2011, 11:35 PM
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Hi BMR!

As you noticed in my thread, I am preparing mentally to tackle this job soon ... and on both sides
will probably replace the front strut assemblies at same time since struts are done as well.

for those who don't know, I have both front bearings bad (most likely) at 125k miles on 2002 solara V6. They are humming/growling while driving, best heard when driving slow at like 15mph. for a long time I thought it's the dragging brakes (they did drag), but after I fixed them I realized bearings are most likely the problem.
Simple free spin test on wheels revealed they are extremely hard to turn with transmission in Neutral and same even after removing wheels and calipers with pads.

Super mega thanks for explanation how to do this job and perfect pics!

I have read through the DIY at least two times and browsed comments. I think I know how to safely remove the tie rod end (scotjack posted a very helpful method with using a jack from bottom on loosened nut), and generally understand the whole process, but have some questions still.

1. per pic no.2
is it 100% safe to use hammer on the axle (after loosening the nut)? what I mean where this axle actually go? sorry for idiotic probably question, but am worried not to destroy something in the differential.

2.
how hard is it to jiggle the steering knuckle out after removing all bolts and nuts?
is it like pushing the control arm down (I think this connects to ball joint, right?) at same time as pulling it outwards from axle and strut bracket?
did you have to pound on it from behind to break it free?

how was it with re-installation? does it easily go back in and on to the axle splines or again some pounding on it was involved?

thanks again.


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'00 Solara SE 5S-FE/A140E @ 92k

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