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Old 03-10-2002, 10:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Here's some post I found off a newsgroup...he's basically saying sticking in some HIDs in regular headlights are bad...but read the last paragraph, he actually mentions projectors and Hellas! This gives a great "excuse" to get projectors!

Some guy was selling/promoting HIDs and this guy replied with the following:

**********
By Daniel Stern Lighting

Better yet, don't.

There are many unsafe, illegal and noncompliant products on the market,
mainly consisting of an HID ballast and bulb for "retrofitting" into a
halogen headlamp. Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very
different optics to produce a safe and effective -- not to mention legal
-- beam pattern. It is not some great feat of upgrade engineering to put
an HID capsule where a halogen bulb belongs, it is just plain foolishness.
Some types of halogen headlamp bulbs (9004, 9007, H3) use a transverse
(side-to-side) and/or offset (not directly in line with the central axis
of the headlamp reflector) filament, the position and orientation of which
is physically impossible to match with a "retrofit" HID capsule. Even
those halogen headlamps that use axial-filament (9005, 9006, H1, H7) bulbs
are not safely or legitimately "convertible", regardless of what kinds of
"clever" products the junk vendors come up with.

The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is
that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the
performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived
to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on
the road immediately in front of the car). However, examining isoscans of
the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" reveals *less*
distance light, and often an alarming relative minimum where there's meant
to be a relative maximum in light intensity. When you *think* you can see
better than you can, you're *not* safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge,
a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective
perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the
foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is
very comforting and reliably produces a strong *impression* of "good
headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of
decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but
having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to
close down, *worsening* your distance vision...all the while giving you
this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive
amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver,
that results from these "retrofits".

HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical
shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits"
make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb
belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims
by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the
fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into
thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely,
HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.

The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the
*entire* headlamp -- that is lens, reflector, bulb...the WHOLE shemozzle
-- with optics designed for HID usage. It IS possible to get clever with
available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or
halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels. But just putting an
HID bulb where a halogen one belongs is bad news all around.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silver Streak on 2002-03-10 23:17 ]</font>
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Old 03-10-2002, 11:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This guy has a few loose screws in his head... I found many amazing quotes:

&quot;There are many unsafe, illegal and noncompliant products on the market,
mainly consisting of an HID ballast and bulb for &quot;retrofitting&quot; into a
halogen headlamp.&quot;


Well, don't we all know that all retrofit HID kits are actually illegal? It even says on the Philips website that it is meant for offroad use only. We still get them because we like to have them, just like our good 'ol open style intakes and loud exhausts.

&quot;The most dangerous part of the attempt to &quot;retrofit&quot; Xenon headlamps is
that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory &quot;improvement&quot; in the
performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived
to be &quot;better&quot; because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on
the road immediately in front of the car). However, examining isoscans of
the beam patterns produced by this kind of &quot;conversion&quot; reveals *less*
distance light, and often an alarming relative minimum where there's meant
to be a relative maximum in light intensity. When you *think* you can see
better than you can, you're *not* safe. &quot;


This makes no sense at all. First of all, he tells us that the lighting appears to be better because of how the light is shooting higher than our normal halogens. Then he concludes that the lighting is illusionary. I seriously don't get what he is trying to say. Obviously, we would all like to aim our regular lowbeams higher to take advantage of the light, but within the restrictions of the law and the safety of others, we don't aim it higher. If the aftermarket HID's do shoot light higher, doesn't that mean we automatically get better lighting? And this is HID lighting we are talking about, and once light is aimed high, it goes on forever! The only drawback is the safety of others; however, the fact is that the lighting is no doubt improved. He did mention that areas where we need light might not be there, but his statement is so general because he is claiming that ALL retrofit kits (inside normal halogen housings) are like that.


&quot;HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical
shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe &quot;retrofits&quot;
make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb
belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims
by these marketers that their systems are &quot;beam pattern corrected&quot; or the
fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into
thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely&quot;


This guy definitely needs to do his research. HID's draw MUCH lesser power when it is fully warmed up. Fitting a HID bulb in a normal halogen won't cause any problems. I think he got mixed up between the power needed during warmup, and that is the only time that HID's draw more power. Running a 80W bulb is even more hazardous if he uses this as an argument.

I totally understand this guy's approach, and I actually do agree with him 100%. Many of the folks are running HID in their H4 (Civics), and they neglect the fact that the HID bulb will light up both their lowbeam and highbeam reflectors. The glare is unbearable on those cars, and they themselves know that every single car in the opposite side of traffic is highbeaming him/her. I've had that happened with my EL :wink:

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Old 03-11-2002, 12:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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hey man this guy piss me off. i got hid on my car and i think its pretty tite.
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Old 03-11-2002, 04:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
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So back to a previous question from long ago... is it possible/wise/feasible to install HIDs on the gen4 (with H4's, not the later gen4) and Solaras? I remember posting that a big drawback was losing my high beams and someone replied that with &quot;new&quot; HID kits I get to keep both low and high beams?

I'm confuzzled... yay or nay on H4/9003 HIDs? Or should I save my money and go with Silverstars?

(Thanks to crappy low-beam lighting I got into a little fender bender earlier this year involving me, my Camry, and a deer that I could've sworn was laughing at me after the fact.)
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Old 05-09-2002, 01:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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hey tony the tiger. if we put bmw projectors inplace of the inetegra projector would it be the same as the bmws? like the beam pattern. since you also have an integra i am asking. because my sister has a blue gsr b18c1. the very rare supersonic blue. mom wanted me to take it but cant leave the camry. been through too much. all bashed up by my ssiter. ahha oh well. love both cars. except mine handles better. haha
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Old 05-12-2002, 12:52 AM   #6 (permalink)
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all i can say about hid/xenon lights are they hav done wonders for me. and they look good. my first pair lasted me almost a year, which i tink is great. i just got new ones, piaa super plasmas, which i tink can light up the world....haven't gotten into an accident yet, haven't gotten a ticket....so im stickin to it...altho, ppl do high beam me all the time...lolz
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Old 05-12-2002, 02:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
On 2002-05-12 01:52, tAn_CamRy wrote:
all i can say about hid/xenon lights are they hav done wonders for me. and they look good. my first pair lasted me almost a year, which i tink is great. i just got new ones, piaa super plasmas, which i tink can light up the world....haven't gotten into an accident yet, haven't gotten a ticket....so im stickin to it...altho, ppl do high beam me all the time...lolz
I'm sorry but those are not real HID/Xenon light. -=Nowhere near=-

LOL.
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Old 05-12-2002, 04:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Most BMW's use ellipsoid reflectors...they're not real projectors like on a Celica, but are still engineered to give you superior light output. I tried to use them in my Solara, but they're way too big...almost 5.5&quot; in diameter.
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