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I brought my 2010 Camry to my dealer for the Accelerator pedal shim recall. I was told they just received the "Brake Override Fix", and would install that as well. This is the computer code change, where, if for some reason the gas pedal sticks down, stepping on the brake will cause the computer to override the gas pedal and bring the engine back to idle, allowing a safe stop. The first thing I tried after the update was to depress the brake, then the gas pedal at the same time while stopped on my street. Much to my surprise, the gas pedal still worked, and the engine revved up, trying to accelerate. I asked the dealer about this and was told the interlocking would not occure with the car stopped by design. This was to allow a mechanic to do the automatic transmission stall test, where they put the transmission in drive, press on the brake and gas pedal at the same time. That seemed reasonalible to me. My next test was to step on the brake while accelerating with the gas pedal. In this case, the engine stopped accelerating (as verfied by the tach), and the brake worked fine. Before coming to a complete stop, I just took my foot off the brake and continued to drive as usual. However, after thinking about it, I began to wonder what would have happened if I brought the car to a complete stop with the brake while still depressing the gas pedal. Would the computer then think I was doing a stall test, and begin to accelerate against the brake? If this was true, and you stopped the car using the brake while the gas pedal was stuck down, I would think the car would suddenly take off full throttle in low gear right after it came to a stop. That in itself could cause an accident unless you were quick enough to turn off the engine. I have not tested this possibility, but it certainly gives me something to think about. I would like to ask Toyota about this, but have no way of doing so. Perhaps someone out there has the answer to this question. If I have a chance to test it, or receive some new information, I will post it. Charles Ranheim
"Before coming to a complete stop, I just took my foot off the brake and continued to drive as usual. However, after thinking about it, I began to wonder what would have happened if I brought the car to a complete stop with the brake while still depressing the gas pedal. Would the computer then think I was doing a stall test, and begin to accelerate against the brake? If this was true, and you stopped the car using the brake while the gas pedal was stuck down, I would think the car would suddenly take off full throttle in low gear right after it came to a stop. That in itself could cause an accident unless you were quick enough to turn off the engine. I have not tested this possibility, but it certainly gives me something to think about."
Have you had the chance to test the above scenarios yet? And what is the outcome?
Also, from these statements: "Much to my surprise, the gas pedal still worked, and the engine revved up, trying to accelerate. I asked the dealer about this and was told the interlocking would not occure with the car stopped by design. This was to allow a mechanic to do the automatic transmission stall test, where they put the transmission in drive, press on the brake and gas pedal at the same time."
What if the "unintended acceleration" is actually on the electronic as well? What if you at a stop behind a car at the intersection, and the "unintended acceleration" occur? Still a potential unsafe situation.
I had a chance to test the Brake Override on my 2010 Camry with the 2.5L engine and auto transmission. First of all, the brake override will not override the gas pedal if the car is stopped as I mentioned before. I then depressed the brake with my left foot while driving about 30mph with my right foot continoulsy on the gas. The engine dropped to about 1000 rpm and stayed there, even though I depressed the accelerator pedal some more. I kept my foot on the brake until the car came to a complete stop. As long as I kept my foot on the brake, pressing the gas pedal had no effect. The engine stayed at 1000 rpm. I then depressed and held the gas pedal a little, observing the engine stayed at 1000 rpm. After several seconds of this, I released the brake pedal. There was about a one second delay, before the gas pedal position took effect, and the car went forward.
Based on this observation, it looks like if I ever needed to stop the car due to a stuck down accelerator pedal, I would bring the car to a stop using the brake, turn off the engine, then release the brake pedal. If you release the brake pedal with the accelerator pedal still stuck down, the car will take off like a rocket after this one second delay. Please understand I am not trying to tell anyone how the system workes in all Toyota's. I am only describing how it appears to work on my Camry. Always check with your dealer or Toyota for the best way to handle a stuck accelerator pedal with this brake override feature if it is installed on your car. I would like to see Toyota address exactly how this brake override feature is designed to work on all their cars. In addition, they should tell everyone how to bring the car to an orderly safe stop with this new safety feature installed. Take care, Charles Ranheim
Last edited by siennavan; 03-01-2010 at 04:42 PM.
Reason: addition
Once again, I just want to state the importance on how to handle a situation where the Brake Override system was activated by normal pressing of the brake while the Accelerator pedal was stuck down, or in some active position. The main thing to remember is to continue to hold your foot on the brake pedal after the car stops, until you shut off the engine!! It is very tempting to take your foot off the brake when the car comes to a stop with the engine idling (while the accelerator pedal is stuck down). But, if you do, and the engine was not shut off, it will take off again after about a one second delay. This happened during one of my tests. The car "took off" so fast, the front drive wheels screeched on the road, and the traction control was activated. Thank goodness I was alone on the road for this test. I tried to email Toyota about this, but they have a problem with their email web site, and will not allow the email to be sent. I have called Toyota several times, only to speak to someone who had no knowledge of the Brake Override feature. I even tried to get them to fix the web site, but was told they could not do that. That pretty much ended my attemps to report the problem to Toyota.
The main thing to remember is to continue to hold your foot on the brake pedal after the car stops, until you shut off the engine!! It is very tempting to take your foot off the brake when the car comes to a stop with the engine idling (while the accelerator pedal is stuck down).
As far as I know, our foot is always on the brake at stop when the gear is in Drive. So this should not be a problem.
"As far as I know, our foot is always on the brake at stop when the gear is in Drive. So this should not be a problem".
That is true, but if you think the problem is over because the car stopped normally, the next normal thing to do is move your foot to the gas pedal to continue on. For the next second or so, things still look normal, but once it times out, the car, which is probably still in drive, will unexpectedly take off (assuming the accelerator pedal is still stuck in a depressed position). It is this unexpeced start up that may cause an accident before you realize what had happened. It sure rattled my cage.
Thanks for your interest and comments on this problem. Do you know if anyone from Toyota looks at this forum? If they see this, I wish they will comment on the exact design specs of the override system so we can be aware what action we should take if the problem occures. It would also be nice if they would fix the support email function so people can provide input directly to them.
There was an article by John Neff at autoblog.com that addresses the way the Toyota Brake Override systems works. It appears to verify what I wrote about my own testing of the feature on my 2010 Camry. This is an excerpt from the article:
About the Brake Override System
The brake override system is designed to stop the vehicle when the brake pedal is firmly pressed in cases in which acceleration is caused by mechanical interference with the accelerator pedal.
However, if the brake pedal is released, while there is still mechanical interference with the pedal, the vehicle may again accelerate. Therefore, once the vehicle brought to a safe stop, the transmission gear selector should be put into neutral or park position before turning off the engine. In this case, drivers are asked to contact their nearest Toyota dealer.
For practical reasons, the brake override system does not engage if the brake pedal is pressed before the accelerator pedal. For example, this allows for vehicles starting on a steep hill to safely accelerate without rolling backwards. Also, while the brake override system is engaged, if the brake pedal is released or if the accelerator pedal moves more than a certain amount, the brake override system will disengage in order to give precedence to the driver intention.
The brake override system does not engage when the vehicle moves at speeds less than approximately five miles per hour, at which point the vehicle can be stopped safely.
I faxed a letter to Toyota a few days ago suggesting they inform people how the brake override feature works, and how to bring the car to a safe stop by shutting off the engine before releasing the brake pedal, in the event the accelerator pedal is still stuck depressed. They have not answered my fax, even though I asked them to confirm it was received and read. Perhaps they feel it is not necessary to bring it up, because the problem had been fixed by the recalls. Personally, I feel better knowing how it is supposed to work to better handle an emergency situation, should the accelerator pedal fail.
For practical reasons, the brake override system does not engage if the brake pedal is pressed before the accelerator pedal. For example, this allows for vehicles starting on a steep hill to safely accelerate without rolling backwards. Also, while the brake override system is engaged, if the brake pedal is released or if the accelerator pedal moves more than a certain amount, the brake override system will disengage in order to give precedence to the driver intention.
Thanks for posting this...if I end up having to get the software upgrade then it sounds like my rev matching concern should not be an issue. Wonder if they'll let me test drive a vehicle with upgraded software first.
I am a tech at a toyota dealer and have tried tried overide system a few different times, I will tell you that after a few times of the engine idling down and back up the overide does not work , I did this on 4 different cars and they all do the same thing , In a panic situatiuon with a v6 pumping the brake about 40 mph,the engine will go to full throttle and will not stop, But i was also giving the car full throttle to duplicate sticking gas pedal
I am a tech at a toyota dealer and have tried tried overide system a few different times, I will tell you that after a few times of the engine idling down and back up the overide does not work , I did this on 4 different cars and they all do the same thing , In a panic situatiuon with a v6 pumping the brake about 40 mph,the engine will go to full throttle and will not stop, But i was also giving the car full throttle to duplicate sticking gas pedal
It sounds scarcely.
Have you reported this to your supervisor and/or to Toyota Headquarter?
Shooty,
May I ask what year and model you tested the Brake Override on? I tested my 2010 Camry with the 2.5L engine and Auto transmission. During my test, I held the accelerator partially down, bracing my right foot against the right side panel so that it would not change position. As the car was accelerating, I depressed and held the brake pedal with my left foot as I watched the tach drop to 1000 rpm, and the car came to a complete stop (Still depressing the Brake Pedal). Without releasing the brake pedal, I tried pressing the accelerator pedal farther down to see if I could make it work. Again, while still keeping pressure on the brake pedal, the tach still showed 1000 rpm. After about 30 seconds, I released the brake with the accelerator pedal partially depressed. There was about a one second delay, then the engine revved up, and that car took off. In my case, the override appears to be working. The important thing is to keep your foot on the brake until your turn off the engine. During your test, did you release the brake before coming to a complete stop? I kept pressure on the brake the whole time, until the car came to a safe and complete stop. At that point in time, I strongly recommend turning off the engine before releasing the brake pedal.
I gave up trying to get Toyota to explain how the override system is designed to work, and how to best use the feature to make a safe (and lasting) controlled stop.
Last edited by siennavan; 03-12-2010 at 04:05 PM.
Reason: Fix spelling error
I am a tech at a toyota dealer and have tried tried overide system a few different times, I will tell you that after a few times of the engine idling down and back up the overide does not work , I did this on 4 different cars and they all do the same thing , In a panic situatiuon with a v6 pumping the brake about 40 mph,the engine will go to full throttle and will not stop, But i was also giving the car full throttle to duplicate sticking gas pedal
You are not supposed to PUMP the brakes that is not how it is designed to work.
Every time you let up it thinks you want to go again.
Hit brakes solidly and KEEP YOUR FOOT ON THE PEDAL.
You really a tech or do you play one on the internet?
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