Sua - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

jfb · 02-23-2010, 02:07 PM

Ok, we all know this is going to eventually involve the electronics of the car. Until that comes to light, what might be done to insure there is an emergency stop method if needed. Would the best solution be to put a kill switch in the ignition power supply voltage circuits? Or, perhaps a mechanical damper shut off in the air supply to starve the air intake that could be closed in an absolute emergency? According to owners, there is no control if the SUA happens, even shifting to netural. Your thoughts please.

Mike Gerber · 02-23-2010, 02:28 PM

You don't want to shut off (kill) the engine. This will cut off the power steering and power brake assist after about 1 to 1-1/2 seconds. This will make it very difficult to stop the car, especially without the power brake. Just place the car in neutral so the engine sill still feed these 2 important items with power.

If you are that uncomfortable driving the car, contact your local dealer and express your concern to them. They should already have the parts to address the recall.

Mike

jfb · 02-23-2010, 03:28 PM

Mike,
The netural fix apparantly does not work. Thats what I have been telling my wife to do, but it may not be correct. The lady testified today before the house panel, that she actually had the car in reverse, as well as netural, and nothing would stop the car! Thats a good point about the power steering and brake asist, maybe I don't want to kill the engine all at once, maybe shut down the air and let it die slowly. I really am concerned, its a 2010 Camry SE (and not a part of the recall), and I worry about my wife or daughter driving it now. I do not, for a moment, believe that the floor mats, or acelerator pedal has anything at all to do with whats going on, and all of us drive cars with the ECM in control..and thats scary to me. Other opinions out there?

eskymi · 02-23-2010, 03:38 PM

I don't understand what they mean when they say that nuetral doesn't work. Obviously it will not slow the car, all it does is disengage the driveshaft (or something like that) and prevent the car from spinning the tires, but you still have to brake to slow down.

Sure the engine will rev, but it should go into neutral and keep everything from spinning. Also the 2010 Camry is part of the floor mat recall...they should reshape the pedal, remove some floor padding and flash the ecu with the brake override that will stop the car under SUA conditions. It does work, I put my foot down and got up to 55mph and hit the brake with my left foot while still pressing the gas and the car slows down like normal...but stupid me removed my foot from the brake, forgetting I was on the gas and WHAMO she took off like a rocket.

Mike Gerber · 02-23-2010, 06:20 PM

"I really am concerned, its a 2010 Camry SE (and not a part of the recall), and I worry about my wife or daughter driving it now."

If it's not part of the recall, you may not have the CTS pedal involved in the pedal recall. Your car may have the Denso pedal. In either case, why don't you call Toyota corporate at 1-800-331-4331 and discuss your concerns with customer service. (They call it the Customer Experience Center.) Have your vin number handy.

Personally, I have an 07 Camry XLE that was part of the recall. I had the recall done about 10 days ago and haven't experienced any problems before or after having the recall done. Currently we have 39,000 miles on the car.

Mike

Lightning Blue · 02-24-2010, 11:50 AM

From what I've been reading, it appears the Electronic transmission isn't shifting into Neutral like it should!

spp · 02-24-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Blue

From what I've been reading, it appears the Electronic transmission isn't shifting into Neutral like it should!

Reading this WHERE?

Lightning Blue · 02-24-2010, 09:44 PM

News stories. I'll dig one up tomorrow, but the quote was "a lady testifed that she put her car in neutral and even reverse and it kept accellerating"

Well I DO know that on recent cars, you can't engage reverse when you're going forward anyway...but if it's in "neutral" and still powering the wheels, then it sounds electronic...maybe this is an area where they need to stick to a nice mechanical link!

spp · 02-25-2010, 06:43 PM

I saw her testify over and over on TV. I don't find her story credible.
Some have posted on this forum that the trans can indeed be put in neutral.
I think she paniced and over shot to reverse which does have a lock out and no where that I saw did they rule out the floor mat in her case. At least from what I saw on the news.
She burned out the brakes by engaging the e-brake and probably pumping at the brake pedal rather than hitting it hard and keeping it there until the brakes were gone. Assuming it had the SMART key she probably did not know how to use it to shut off the engine.

Lightning Blue · 02-26-2010, 08:08 AM

Yeah, it doesn't really sound credibile to me, why would you have a lockout in neutral? Unless it is 100% electronic and did fail to shift, but I too would more lean towards driver error.

***judge34411*** · 03-11-2010, 02:54 AM

The car is going into neutral, and really its not that big an issue if you put it into neutral. What worries me more is in parking lots with the pedestrians. I worry about our reaction time. Just hit the brake first and go for neutral if it happens. An do not forget it is very rare.

In the last event the gentleman was afraid to put it into neutral, An over 15 miles an hour you will not even notice the power steering if you turn the car off and the accumulator will have enough to give plenty of braking with power off, Power steering and Power brakes are just that power assist.

mcdawgg · 03-11-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spp

I saw her testify over and over on TV. I don't find her story credible.
Some have posted on this forum that the trans can indeed be put in neutral.
I think she paniced and over shot to reverse which does have a lock out and no where that I saw did they rule out the floor mat in her case. At least from what I saw on the news.
She burned out the brakes by engaging the e-brake and probably pumping at the brake pedal rather than hitting it hard and keeping it there until the brakes were gone. Assuming it had the SMART key she probably did not know how to use it to shut off the engine.

The lady also "forgets" to say that the NHTSB said that two floor mats was the cause of her problem.

The7 · 03-11-2010, 12:30 PM

Most cars use
1) vacuum assisted hydraulic brakes:- This " vacuum" is produced by the suction of the pistons when revolving. This "vacuum" could remain for a short time after enginestops.
2) hydraulic assisted power steering: This hydraulic power is produced by a pump driven by the engine. No assistance if engine stops.

However some other cars (eg 2009+ Corolla , Prius) use electrical assisted power steering. No assistance if electric power is switched OFF.

For some hybrid cars (say Prius), the ICE may not be running all the time. So the mechanic brakes will be unlikely be "vacuum" assisted. IMO. They could be electrical power assisted!??

sixtyone · 03-11-2010, 04:06 PM

Before computer controls, you knew you had a sticky throttle control by hesitation during acceleration, rough idling, etc. Since the problem didn't go away on its own, you had to take it to a mechanic to clean out the throttle body. If you didn't, the stickiness increased. If you were lucky, the throttle stuck in the closed position and you couldn't start it. Or it could stick in the open position and you were doing a scene from Dukes of Hazzard. The ETCS-i helps to deal with problems in engine performance. Can it make changes that would compensate for throttle stickiness in the early stages? If it does, the driver might not see an increasing problem with stickiness until it approaches a state when the ETCS-i can't deal with it.