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we used to have a 98 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP which burnt during a dealer test drive. anyways, we bought a 2000 Toyota Camry XLE V6 and a 99 Nissan Altima SE to replace the GTP. i'm gonna compare cars for the sake of anybody wanting to purchase either of the cars. (i'm posting it on both GP and Camry forums, replies are welcome...)
Both cars were fully loaded with the exception of the CD-changer in both cars.
Interior: There's a big difference in this department. First of all, the Grand Prix doens't have completely leather seating. Only the place where your bum and back touches the seat is leather, the rest is fake leather. The Camry is real leather. Anyways, every single person in the family agrees that the seats in the Grand Prix were a lot more comfortable than the Camry's. Its a noticeable difference, the Camry doesn't have any side support. The headrest on the Camry is better though. You can use it while ur driving, while the GTP's is pretty much useless if you wanna rest ur head on it while driving. The Grand Prix's dash was more "busy" in best ways i can say. There was a computer that tells you how much gas you've spent, MPG, oil life, and a couple of other useful things. The rear view mirror on the Grand Prix seemed better in terms that you could see more out of it, and that it had electronic darkening on it as well. The Grand Prix had HUD, which displayed the speed, cd tracks and other useful info on the windsheild infront of the driver. Its a very neat feature (if you're thinking "oh thats annoying" you can turn it off, but i've never seen anyone turn it off since its so useful). The other pro for the Grand Prix's interior is the steering wheel mounted stereo controls. The Camry's interior is made from much higher quality material though. You don't hear squeaks or rattles, at all. Everything is fitted in together perfectly, and the console slopes down nicely, not flat as in the Grand Prix. The JBL Sound System in the Camry is very clear. The trebble is better than in the Grand Prix. Bass wise, the Grand Prix's system is better. I had the premium 8-speaker system in the Grand Prix, not the new Bose system.
Driving: Well, anyone wanting to buy either cars should really know that they haven't chosen the closest cars in terms of driving. The Grand Prix GTP in simple terms, is a monster. With its supercharged 3.8L V6, it'll make an embarassment of a Camry with the 3.0L V6. And I mean a huge embarassment. I raced a couple of Camries in the GTP, it wasn't really close. The Grand Prix slams you in the seat on taking off in first gear, and stays like that until you reach 140km/h. The Camry though has DOHC. First gear i notice is pretty much dead in the Camry, it doesn't do much. Second gear in the Camry is good though, it has enough useable power on the highway (but still not as much as the Grand Prix). The Grand Prix is louder and rougher in sound. The Camry is very very smooth and quiet. In the Grand Prix I always used to go driving when i was bored just to feel the power. In the Camry I feel bad for giving it, its just too civilized. Handling wise, the Camry takes this department. First, it is very smooth, I'm still very amazed by how smooth it is. I've ridden in a lot of luxury cars, and will say that the Camry is comparable to them. It also seems to have more grip that the Grand Prix, and it takes bumps way better. Steering wise, the Camry is easier to park, and the Grand Prix steering feels better due to the MagnaSteer (uses Magnetis to make the steering stiffer at higher speeds).
The headlights on the Camry are lot better than the Grand Prix's. The Camry doesn't have foglights, but it still outshines the Grand Prix with them. (But simply replacing the Grand Prix's fogs with Blazertech 3200's for $50 will give you better lighting than the camry.) If left stock, the Grand Prix's headlights are bad.
Looks all are always opionitive. Most of the people that I know thought the Camry looked better cause its sporty. A lot more people check out the Grand Prix and a lot more people compliment the Grand Prix. But the Camry is "slick" as most people say, and ofcourse, more people try to race the Grand Prix than the Camry.
Gas mileage wise, both cars require premium fuel. The Camry is averaging about 23 mpg in the city, while the grand prix averaged 17-18 mpg. On the highway its the opposite way around. The Grand Prix used to do around 32 mpg. The Camry, doesn't have a computer to tell you how much, and i haven't had the time to do a good calculation, i would say its around 26-28mpg. It spends a lot more fuel on the highway than the grand prix. Its easily noticeable from the drop in the fuel gauge.
anyways, thats what i noticed difference wise between the 2 cars. Reliability, I can't really say much bout the cars. I only had 2 problems with the Grand Prix. The first one was a transmission selenoid fixed under warranty and the other was another transmission problem (the car burnt during this visit to the dealership) in 2 years. The Camry we've havd for 2 months, and no problems. If you haven't driven a Grand Prix GTP, go test drive it, you'll be very surprised by the power. If you haven't driven a Camry, go and you'll be very surprised with how smooth it is.
When you have a supercharger the power on the GTP is less then the Camry.I have raced a couple GTP's in the past and my S/C Camry smoked them every time.
I'm talking about a stock vs stock. Modified GTP's are nuts. there's around ten of them running 12's. most do mid-high 14's stock.
Shifting wise, Grand Prix's are all automatic. (GM supposedly makes the best automatics, they make them for the BMW 3 and 5 series).
modified, anything can be better than something else. except i don't think the grand prix can get as smooth as the camry without some major cash put into it.
Shifting wise, Grand Prix's are all automatic. (GM supposedly makes the best automatics, they make them for the BMW 3 and 5 series).
One question though, why did his transmission go out after 2 years, and my 9 year old transmission is perfectly fine? I guess GM doesn't make the best trannys after all........
"Just want to clarify that the 1MZ-FE V6 in the Camry (and Sienna, Solara, RX300, ES300, Highlander, Avalon, etc...) does *not* require premium fuel. "
i've read a couple of times that it needs premium fuel, is this true? cause 87-octane will save me some money.
My car didn't burn while we were driving it. We took it to the dealership, they took some things out, put others back in...and then took it for a test drive. They didn't tighten something well or something, and the engine caught on fire.
Transmission wise, concidering the car had 280 ft-lbs running through it from the start, and it being a front wheel drive tranny, its bound to break down after a while. Its the main problem with Grand Prix's, the transmission can't take the power well. The only fwd drive car that i can think of that puts down more torque is the Cadillac STS and DTS. Both these cars have down tuned engines due to the transmission. Their transmission won't fit in the Grand Prix as well.
GM is known to make the best automatics, they make trannies for a lot of other companies. Look at the comparison that was done between a Buick Regal LS (3.8L automatic) and the new Altima (3.5L automatic). The Altima was able to outaccelerate from 0-60, but from 5-60, the Regal was faster. Its simply due to the transmission putting down the power. I've had a 96 Camry(cousin's 4cyl LE) transmission breakdown in my driveway (no more reverse).
Reliability wise, we only had 2 probs with the Grand Prix and it had 140,000km on it, most Grand Prix owners have no problems, but some are screwed big time. We were going to purchase a 98 Camry with 80,000km but it had an A/C problem. A lot of GTP's will get to 200,000 miles on the same engine, now can u tell me that a lot of Camry's will get down to run 12.3's and 12.4's for the same price that a Grand Prix will do it? Toyota's aren't invincible in reliability, they're just good at it.
Cars are just luck in terms of reliability. Its like gambling. American cars are kinda like the 50c machines while Japanese cars are $1 machines. You have a better change of a Japanese car not breaking down.
My car didn't burn while we were driving it. We took it to the dealership, they took some things out, put others back in...and then took it for a test drive. They didn't tighten something well or something, and the engine caught on fire.
You don't see that happening in a Toyota.
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Transmission wise, concidering the car had 280 ft-lbs running through it from the start, and it being a front wheel drive tranny, its bound to break down after a while. Its the main problem with Grand Prix's, the transmission can't take the power well. The only fwd drive car that i can think of that puts down more torque is the Cadillac STS and DTS. Both these cars have down tuned engines due to the transmission. Their transmission won't fit in the Grand Prix as well.
Well if they knew this problem beforehand why haven't they downtune the engine?
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GM is known to make the best automatics, they make trannies for a lot of other companies. Look at the comparison that was done between a Buick Regal LS (3.8L automatic) and the new Altima (3.5L automatic). The Altima was able to outaccelerate from 0-60, but from 5-60, the Regal was faster. Its simply due to the transmission putting down the power. I've had a 96 Camry(cousin's 4cyl LE) transmission breakdown in my driveway (no more reverse).
Let's see the % of drivetrain lost in order to call which tranny is better.
If one car is faster than the other with the same displacement, it doesn't mean one tranny's better than the other. There are a lot of other important factors such as the gearings.
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Reliability wise, we only had 2 probs with the Grand Prix and it had 140,000km on it, most Grand Prix owners have no problems, but some are screwed big time. We were going to purchase a 98 Camry with 80,000km but it had an A/C problem. A lot of GTP's will get to 200,000 miles on the same engine, now can u tell me that a lot of Camry's will get down to run 12.3's and 12.4's for the same price that a Grand Prix will do it? Toyota's aren't invincible in reliability, they're just good at it.
So are you saying if Grand Prix won't make it down to 12's then there's no reason to get one? :smile:
I could make my Camry run 12's but I rather keep my car more then one year.BTW I ran a 14.11 with only minor head work on my car.My car dynoed at just over 224hp to the wheels now you calculate 20% loss and waht does that give me.Think about it I only spent 900$ for a 1sec off my 1/4 mile I think that is dam cheap.But anyways you can compare a stock Camry to a stock GTP since the Camry has no supercharger stock and was not tuned for one in the first place.BTW im not saying the GTP is all bad I kinda like it but its not what I wanted since GM needs to wake the hell up and make some good cars and back the products up.
We should call Grand-Prix the "Squeeky car".
I test drove a brand new Grand prix and interior made so much squeeky noise!! Also I was afraid to touch any instrument knobs in fear of breaking it!!! It looks like 5 years old kid designed the Grand Prix interior!! It looks SO cheap!!
You know, I rather have a underpowered V6 car that lasts for 10 years than supercharged car that only runs for 2~3 years before the tranny swap or engine catching fire... Besides all those squeeky noise will drive me insane...
Go to http://www.clubgp.com/forum/ and read their problems/quality issues section!!! It's scary!!!
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R.I.P. 95 Mustang GT conv->"SNOW AND MUSTANG DON'T MIX"
99 Solara SE V6
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jay on 2002-06-30 18:27 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jay on 2002-06-30 18:28 ]</font>
"Think about it I only spent 900$ for a 1sec off my 1/4 mile."
lol, thats pretty funny, concidering for a grand prix it only costs $70 to gain 25 more hp and 25 more ft-lbs of torque(supercharger pulley). add in a cold air intake after the pulley and you should be in the 13's. Modifying wise, the grand prix is very easily modifyable and cheap, and remember, its automatic. If you haven't driven one, go drive one, what are you gonna lose. Not to buy or anything, just to get an idea what its about.
Engine wise, the Grand Prix's engine is very reliable. Trust me, I would know, our past 3 cars had the 3.8L and we never ever had a problem with the engines. Even without a supercharger, its got more power than the Camry's V6. You guys really think GM cars break down every 5 seconds. Its just like how the people on the american car side look at Japanese cars and think they're slow. Cars change. I was just at my uncle's house, he was talking about his previous and current caprice. They both had the stock engines/tranny, the previous one lasted 750,000km and the current one is at 600,000 km.
Only one other Grand Prix burnt as far as i know, and the guy was heavily modified. My car was under being worked on, it wasn't just driven and burnt. Look around, there's tons of cars that burn. I can show you BMW's that burn. Ofcourse Camry's aren't gonna have tranny problems, the engine doesn't really put out much power to start with to make the tranny work hard, the Camry is the weakest car in its class. People complain that the Grand Prix's engine is based on old technology (OHV) and that it doesn't have DOHC. When it comes to the bottom line, what's the point of all that stuff if in the end the Grand Prix's engine is more powerful. I know its a 3.8L vs 3.0L, but why put a 3L in the first place. If its due to gas mileage, look at GM's LS6 (corvette engine), it does 19/28 mpg for 405 hp. Whether, SOHC, DOHC, or OHV, the main thing that matters is the power that the car puts down in the end and that the car won't break down when revved.
Squeaks wise, the Grand Prix's interior was a lot busier. There were a lot more things to rattle, computer, 7-band equalizer, lights on the doors, electrochromatic mirror... Pontiac approached it right, but not with the best material.
I'm not bashing the Camry, I love it, i'm just showing a comparison for anyone planning on purchasing one of the 2 cars. Its not the first Camry i drive. We owned both cars, and we know how the cars are. Personally, we'd get a Maxima over both cars. It offers the best of both worlds, but it also doesn't depreciate much and we're more into purchasing user cars instead of new.
Just want to clarify that the 1MZ-FE V6 in the Camry (and Sienna, Solara, RX300, ES300, Highlander, Avalon, etc...) does *not* require premium fuel.
Correction: ES300 requires premium fuel, but not Camry/Solara.
If you're still not sure, read your owner's manual for proper instruction.
Hmmn, I didn't know that. Any particular reason the ES requires it? I thought the tuning was the same as on the RX, and AFAIK (99% sure) the RX doesn't require premium fuel. I just looked/read somewhere that notes premium fuel is required only on pre-1994 ES300's... I wonder if the ES used the 1MZ-FE all the way back then (since the Camry didn't).
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