1MZ-FE Sludge Issue. How bad is it?

[AlphaMale]

I had posted last week about a possible 1994 Camry LE V6 purchase (thanks to those who helped), and am going to bargain with the dealer tommorrow.

I am also well-aware of the sludge issue which can damage the motor due to oil change neglect, and wondered if anyone can shed light on this paradox I've found: This V6 engine is one of the most durable and quiet motors ever created, yet we know there are most likely more people who don't do their oil changes until well past 3K miles than those who religiously change it every 3K. So without surprise, given these motors CAN rack the mileage with no problems despite infrequent oil changes, should I be concerned at all that this car has no service records? Are the oil changes THAT critical to longevity in this motor? Would I benefit from using this issue as a bargaining tool to lower the price?

I hope I'm making sense! I'm just trying to learn more about these engines and how they tick.

[EKam]

1MZ-FEs from Gen3 (94-96) don't seem to have this issue.

But again, sludge can happen to any engine, not just 1MZs.

[91MR2quickNA]

The 1MZ and 5S from 1996-2001 seem to be affected. Toyota decreased the cooling passages in the engine to increase combustion chamber temperature for better emissions. I'm thinking some of these engines had a critical defect and ran hotter than some cheap dino oils can protect against. The engines do run hotter than their previous years, but some seem to be more prone to sludge than others, i.e. Sienna 1MZ. I've read countless stories of people doing their oil changes regularly and the engine still sludged up. Synthetic oil seems to be the best fix.

Also, you don't need to change your oil every 3,000 miles. Follow what's stated in the maintenance schedule in your Owner's Manual. Turbo and Supercharged engines should be changed every 2,500 miles. Toyota usually recommends 5,000-7,500 for N/A vehicles, less if you're doing severe driving, i.e. lots of stop and go driving or driving on dusty, unpaved roads, etc.

[AlphaMale]

Did some more reading last night, and learned the sludge issue began from '96 on. Sorry, my bad!

[AvalonMan96]

My 1996 Avalon, oil changed every 4-5K miles with regular oil, never suffered any kind of sludge problem, and hopefully never will. It currently has 164,000 miles on it (on the original engine).

I bought the car because it was well cared for and everything was well documented by the previous owner, especially the oil changes. That was important to me because of my knowledge of the 1MZ's history. The maintenance records proved the car good to go, so I bought it and have not regretted it. No troubles of any kind in the 6 months I have had it.

I expect this car to go at least 200K miles like my old 1988 Camry did, which is why I bought another Toyota in the first place.

I believe the whole sludge issue was blown way out of proportion anyway. Wasn't the percentage of affected 1MZ's less than 1 percent?

[91MR2quickNA]

Originally Posted by AvalonMan96

Wasn't the percentage of affected 1MZ's less than 1 percent?

Yeah, which is why Toyota refused to replace the engines affected. They've since changed their ways and offer an 8 year/Unlimited Mile warranty on any sludge related issue as long as you have proof of one oil change a year.

[Toysrme]

You hear a lot of stories about sludge

Here are my opinions (based off what I have seen, heard from Toyota and misc. mechanics themsevles)

1. The oil does not sludge if you change it
2. Oil pools in the rear head, and does not circulate like it should
3. The PCV valve, and hose itself for the rear valve cover is too small to properly scavange the rear head

There is a reason Toyota/Lexus now has a LIFETIME warrenty against engine sludge. (All Lexus owners recieved two letters on the subject, Toyota owners did not)
If you can prove you have changed the oil ONCE in the last 10 months, or 10,000 miles and the motor has sludge damage, It will be fully covered.

[91MR2quickNA]

Hmm, didn't know they did the lifetime thing now. We only got one letter about an 8 year/Unlimited mile warranty on any sludge related damage for my mom's 2000 Camry.

The Sienna seems to have had the most problems for unknown reasons. I've seen some on the freeways here with severe blow-by indicating a sludge problem. Many owners had their Siennas serviced by Toyota every 3,000 miles and still had the problem. Many lost in arbitration even with their receipts from a Toyota dealership.

It's good to hear that Toyota offers a lifetime warranty now.

[Toysrme]

^ That is on the 3vz-fe, and 1mz-fe ES motors.
That does not include any motor from any other car, even if it is the exact same motor. Sennia's are SOL.

It was real funny. Lexus sent out the letter to (then) current ES 300 owners, saying X amount of years or X amount of mileage.
Everyone got pissed off about it so a revision letter came out shortly there after.


For the record, if any of you Camry guys ever have problems with oil gelling call
Lexus Division
1-888-654-6421
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
19001 South Western Avenue
PC Box 2991
Torrance, CA 90509-2991

Ask for all referance material about oil gelling on ES 300's and their coverage warrenty.
Then take it to your Toyota dealer and raise hell about it.

[CX889]

What is sludge means?

[Toysrme]

It's when the oil get's old, broken down and comtaminated.

Eventually it starts turning from a liquid into a gel.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sludge

1. Semisolid material such as the type precipitated by sewage treatment.
2. Mud, mire, or ooze covering the ground or forming a deposit, as on a riverbed.
3. Finely broken or half-formed ice on a body of water, especially the sea.
4. An agglutination or aggregation of blood cells forming a semisolid mass that often impedes circulation.

intr.v. sludged, sludg·ing, sludg·es
To agglutinate or aggregate into a semisolid mass; form a sludge. Used of blood cells.

[AvalonMan96]

Originally Posted by 91MR2quickNA

Yeah, which is why Toyota refused to replace the engines affected. They've since changed their ways and offer an 8 year/Unlimited Mile warranty on any sludge related issue as long as you have proof of one oil change a year.

That's what I thought. Glad I'm part of the 99% that haven't been (and hopefully never will be) affected by sludge.

[ShawnM]

Just got an 02 sienna in the shop with a v-6. Lots of sludge in the valve covers, engine is locked up. Only 42,000 miles on it but 6,000 overdue for an oil change. I was trying really hard not to laugh but i just couldnt help myself. Just thought id share. Change that oil!!!!!

[91MR2quickNA]

^^ LOL. 6,000 isn't overdue by Toyota's regular maintanence standard. Either Sienna engines have a defect or there's a defect in the cooling system or something.

In any case, that engine should be warrantied for 8 years/Unlimited miles. You should make them contact Toyota. The letter that we received said any Toyota 1996-2003 with the 1MZ or 5S are covered.

[ShawnM]

6,000 over 3,000. So thats 9,000 miles without changing the oil. I wouldnt think the dealer would cover that but i'll have to give them a call and see. I sure as hell wouldnt if I was them. Lack of proper maintenance is usually theyre way out of warranty issues.