Electric Supercharger Info

[mo1213]

Has anyone on this board purchased an electric supercharger and installed it on their ride? If not, does anyone know if this electric supercharger actually worls? I was looking at a listing on ebay for an electric supercharger and I wanted to get some advice on such an item. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks

[Pineapple]

I would say do a SEARCH first.

[Toysrme]

Small electric chargers such as the e-ram are nothing more than a restriction. Sadly, the E-ram is probably the most advanced of anything.
They can't work because:

1. They do not have the power from their weak motors, not designed specifically to the job they have at task
2. The impeller/fan units, like the motor itself is pulled from a different application. It simply is a piss-poor design for anything but low-speed. Even IF it were spun fast enough to negate the a-fore-mentioned problem, it would simply grenade into a few thousand pieces, long before it reached the ability to move it out of negative restriction
3. The entire housings themselves are not capable of safely supporting the loads required by the motor/fan combo to make any power. If something ever happened (plastic fan units do tend to break from the centrifugal-forces) Not only would you have stuff thrown into your intake, but the plastic bits would also blow through the housing itself into the engine bay. There is plenty of force stored for something to split a rubber line, or electrical wire
4. The amount of power used. It is impossible to generate the RPM needed at 12vdc. By the time you draw enough amperage @ 12vdc, you're long melted every wire of every part in your system

If you want a real electric-charger, I can make you one powerful enough in the same style to make some power. I can't tell you how much it would make, but it would be positive gains, unlike the massive restrictions the a-fore-mentioned units pose.

I priced into building one last year around $1300. It sounds high, but I honestly wouldn't be making $150 for my time.

[Luckynumber5]

first off do you know anything about superchargers and turbochargers?

they produce positive pressure in the intake manifold allowing the enigne to take in more ait into each cylinder than it normally could with just the vacuum the pistons produce, this allows more and and fuel to be packed into each cylinder


second, little electric superchargers like that CAN give you boost and a little more get up and go..... to about 1500 rpm, after that you loose power because it causes so much drag since the engine is creating more vacuum as the rpms increase than the motor can produce boost

third if you have any more questions about stuff like intakes (CAI or short RAM) start using that search button, there have been tons of posts on making camry's faster in the past, everything has been cov ered, including making a redi-whip NOS setup




edit: Pineapple is that a computer cooling fan in your celica's intake??

[anuthaCamry]

They work beautifully and do a great job, but not as well as the late night get rich quick schemes or junk bonds. What do they do? you might ask, well they make people money. What do you get in return? A choice of whether to pretend it works or to admit you got scammed. For many, sadly, it's easier to just pretend it works.

I have not evaluated this product.

[Racer_Rodney]

Originally Posted by mo1213

Has anyone on this board purchased an electric supercharger and installed it on their ride? If not, does anyone know if this electric supercharger actually worls? I was looking at a listing on ebay for an electric supercharger and I wanted to get some advice on such an item. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks

they work great for superchaging your computer shell or amplifiers, they keep them super cool.

sorry it is all hype, nothing more then a high doller computer fan

[Pineapple]

Originally Posted by Luckynumber5

edit: Pineapple is that a computer cooling fan in your celica's intake??

That's my Corolla intake and yes its a 120mm 90CFM computer fan.

Now please read through before you flame me for any reason.

Yes, I did put a fan in my Corolla to test the idea.
No, I don't believe a fan can ever replace a SC or turbo or creat +ve pressure.

Will the fan last?
The fan was strong enough to went through 1 year in Toronto summer (40C) and winter (-20C). Computer fan don't fall apart unless you stuck something at the blades. The bearing will fail with dust but since its after the filter, its not a problem.

Will it improve performance?
In theory, yes.
A 1.6L 4 cyl 4 stroke engine take about 180CFM@6000 RPM. 240CFM@6000 for 2.2L 5S-FE.
It won't and cannot take any more air unless its FI. We all know that anything that help improve air flow will help performance: intake, exhaust, P&P. The goal is to reduce restriction so the engine will get the needed airflow. We also know air velocity is important for lowend torque. Also the faster we can fill the cylinder, the more air will get in there. Air need time to fill the cylinder, anything that help fill it up before valve close will help.

Now how does an "Intake Fan" improve performance?
A fan is design to move air, at speed. As long as exit pressure is not much higher then inlet, it'll push air through. Yes, a fan WILL STOP pushing air as long as pressure is buildup at the exit <- no way it can creat boost with 0CFM.
Say we get a 12V fan with 240CFM on the intake. At idle, it'll keep pushing air into the pipe. When TB is open, air will rush into the cylinder. The fan will keep trying to push 240CFM into the engine so it'll never be a restriction until the engine need more then that amount.
So with a properly sized fan, in theory you'll gain more lowend. You won't see much in high RPM cause the fan can't push that much air. You gain lowend due to: fan pushing air into engine to help it breath, air go into engine at higher velocity, cylinder got fill up faster then engine sucking in air, reduced work from engine to suck in air.

So did I feel anything in the Corolla.
Yes, engine respond faster. Less lag when I floor the gas. No loss felt at highend. HP? Maybe a few %, not more then 10%, under 5% is more realistic. Keep in mind the fan I used was 1/2 the CFM need.

I'll get a 240CFM fan and dyno it in my Celica later to see if I'm living in a pipe dream

Thank you for reading and please comment on my theory.

Try not to flame, I know its tempting

[Pineapple]

BTW a fan cost much less then anyone in eBay try to sell.
Do It Yourself or buy a real SC or Turbo.

[Snip3r]

so that computer fan is always running right? ho0w do you power the fan? how does that work again?
I dont really get your math formulas either ..or what CFM's etc are.
So Im sure this is a really cheap and fun set up for someone not really serious about serious performance, do you think It could work on a 89 Corolla GTS?

[mo1213]

Thanks for all your help and advice

[McTimson]

Computer fans run off 12v DC, which is the voltage that your car puts out.

CFM stands for cubic feet per minute, it's a measure of the amount of air flowing through a system. PC fans don't generally move more than 100 CFM, but there are most likely higher end fans that can push that much.

[Tercel GTS]

I can't see a computer fan helping anything to be honest. If you really want to try a DC powered fan, look at blower fans from under dash of a car or something. At least that has a decent sized motor and a squirel cage fan. This would make more of a compressor than a standard blade could. I could see jacking up the voltage to make it faster too.

[Toysrme]

Pineapple, that thing is nothing more than a restriction.
It's even MORE of a restriction since it's moving.

Here's the fluid-dynamic problem that you can't address, or fix. (FY I'm just going to use your numbers right, or wrong; I'm not checking them)
240CFM@6000 for the motor.
Let's say the fan moves 100CFM for discussion.
Now... Why, under no circumstance will the fan NOT move any air into the motor? The answer is because of how the vacuum of the engine works.

Without too much detail, this is as basic as I can make it. The fan moves 100cf every 60 seconds. The engine is AVERAGING 240cf every 60 seconds.
(Let's work with one cylinder for a while for simplicities sake, 240cfm/4 = 60cfm @ 6,000rpm.)
Now... That's an AVERAGE of 60cf every 60 seconds. What does that mean??? Remember, the engine is working in cycles, it is only ingesting air from the moment the intake camshaft cracks open, until the moment it slams shut!!! It also does this in *extremely* small space of time, A typical port & camshaft, will have maximum flow, only 20%-33% of the time the intake valve is open. (We're going to leave out cam duration, overlaps ect and just go with 4 cycles, 1 is intake)
So each cylinder is taking in that 60cfm for only 25% of the time... Why don't we theoretically get rid of the average...
60cfm*4= 240cfm. What's this??? Suddenly we see the engine, if sucking constantly would move 960cfm!!!

Now, you may be saying, yeah 960cfm PLUS 100cfm is awsome! Not so fast!!! We've forgotten something extremely important!!! The pressure, or lack there of, the air is moving at!!! The air is being drawn through the engine in HUGE amount of pressure!!! Check a vacuum gauge sometime and you see how much force is behind it.

What is THE most important direct correlation between the vacuum and a fan not working??? Airspeed. The air flowing down the intake is flowing near the speed of sound!!!
How fast is the air blowing behind that crappy little fan? Impossible to tell, you need to know barometric pressure, the pitch and speed of the blade... But it's never going to be more than 25mph on such a small, slow spinning fan.
^^^
That is why it doesn't work. "So Toysrme, tell us why its even worse with the fan running, than free-wheeling in the breeze?"
Glad I asked!
Turbulence my dear, turbulence! With the fan free-wheeling, the blades are going to be in X molecule's path for the smallest amount of time. With the fan spinning, the molecules are going to have the longest time period of obstruction.
Keep something in mind... Those CPU fan's NEVER draw more than 5amps... Most of the smaller motherboard fans don't draw more than 0.5amp. With such little power from the motor, the blades are not going to be able to "plow" the air out of the way to increase pressure. RPM between power, and un powered are not going to vary much at all while air is being sucked down into the intake.
Also, remember that 20-30% of the fan's "volume of airflow" is generated by the air being sucked OVER the front of the blade. (B's principal, the backside of the blade, NOT exposed to air is a low pressure zone. Air will be sucked along the back of the blade, instead of being "grabbed" and "plowed" off the face of the blade.
It simply doesn't do anything with the type of time, velocity, and pressure we're talking about.

[CrawlingEye]

Computer fans can put out some respectable CFM's. I have a 96mm Vantec Tornado in my computer right now (in fact, I have 2 of them along with an 80mm). The 96mm puts out 119CFM. Now if you bumped up the voltage, I'm certain it could put out much more.

The problem you're facing with using a fan like this for a car is that you're not really gaining a damned thing. The engine functions as a vacuum. A fan on its own will never make substantial power. The reason a real supercharger or turbo works is because they're very high RPM and high flow. An electric fan will never reach that much power.

[Toysrme]

FYI Noone is *ever* going to be able to pull enough power from a 12, or 24vdc car battery to achive the type of flow velocities to do anything.
The basic principal behind a roots/screw supercharger VS a centrifical supecharger is VERY handy to have in our sintuation(even tho we're using a typical setup fan).

A fan has to rely on EXTREMELY high velocities to achive boost.
The type of velocities you will never find on low-voltage DC motors will never be found. They don't have the potential RPM.

Like I said... I could make anyone that wants to pay me $1300 for a working electric supercharger using BETTER than the bleeding edge of Electric R/C ducted fans.

Apply some thinking:

1. You will never find this size fan/impellor housings so effecient, and strong enough to handle 40,000+ rpm
2. You will never find electric motors as effecient at such high performance, or simply motors that can produce the performance (we're talking 5-10 direct drive horsepower NOT between 0-100rpm, We're talking peak torque at several thousand rpm, and peak horsepower over 30,000rpm)
3. Since 12-24-42vdc car batteries can't support how fast the power draw of above said motors are, Lion, and Lipo R/C flight batteries are quick recharging, longer lasting, and easily support the powerflow
4. Electronics to control power flow, and extend the life of high performance motors exists (it can be short with the size/power we're talking about)
5. Everything is ready-made, with quality noone on this forum can touch (not a knock, I can't either)