Cold temperature starting problems - searched

[flexysteve]

Hi everyone,
I posted before and tried a bunch of things but have narrowed it down. It wont start right away below approx 30 degrees. Yesterday it ran fine 40 degrees and this morning it wouldn't start.

I replaced the wires, plugs and fuel filter. When it starts, it starts up right away. When it doesn't, if I hold the key to keep the starter going, the engine will eventually ramp up to a start and start running. I have to hold the key for about 20 seconds in the starting position.

I added dry gas to remove any water in the line and it didn't seem to make a difference. Does anyone have any ideas. It seems very on and off and doesn't happen at all when the temps in the 40s.

I thought it might be the fuel pump but I really have no idea.

Another problem its having (seems unrelated to me, but maybe not) is that the car wont idle consistently only when its at proper engine temp. It only shifts appox 200 rpm but not enough to make it stall.

Thanks
Steve

[DarkMastyr]

Here's what I do. In the wintertime, I pump the gas 3 times before I turn the key. Also, if it seems like it's going to stutter, I give it some gas (steady amount, not pumping the pedal) until it starts, then I hold the engine at a higher rev ~1500rpm for about a minute until the engine is completely warmed up and can idle on its own.

[Davee]

You call 30 cold How about minus 30?
The symptoms sound to me like a possible vacuum leak -- disturbing the mixture when starting. Use a hose & listen around various leakage points for a hiss wih engine running.
Alternatively the temperature sensor may be TU & not asking for richer starting mix . Not sure how this is checked -- but make sure the wires are connected . on 4 cylinder 97 They are at hose outlet drivers side near the valve cover
PLEase post results so we can learn from your experience Thanks Dave

[Davee]

Originally Posted by DarkMastyr

Here's what I do. In the wintertime, I pump the gas 3 times before I turn the key. Also, if it seems like it's going to stutter, I give it some gas (steady amount, not pumping the pedal) until it starts, then I hold the engine at a higher rev ~1500rpm for about a minute until the engine is completely warmed up and can idle on its own.

This pumping technique does not do anything unless you have a carbeurated engine with an accelerator pump. It can also easly flood such an angine & shoiuld be used while cranking- not before
With fuel injection running right, you rarely have to give throttle to keep it running. Starting at minus 30 I got ignition on only 2 cylinders & had to ease into throttle to clear the other two. Otherwise I let the engine management keep it going.

[Mike Gerber]

flexysteve,

What year Camry and what engine do you have? The different years use different sensors to richen up the mixture for a cold start. This seems to be your problem. Gen 1 and gen 2 used what is called a "cold start time switch". Gen 3 and gen 4's get their signal to make the mixture richer right from the "engine coolant temp sensor" (also called the ECT). There are specs in most manuals to check these items. You will need the specs along with a digital volt/ohmeter.

Mike

[virtualkuz]

Originally Posted by Davee

This pumping technique does not do anything unless you have a carbeurated engine with an accelerator pump. It can also easly flood such an angine & shoiuld be used while cranking- not before
With fuel injection running right, you rarely have to give throttle to keep it running. Starting at minus 30 I got ignition on only 2 cylinders & had to ease into throttle to clear the other two. Otherwise I let the engine management keep it going.

Will your cam start with its block at -30? and is that C or F? or do you have to use an engine heater just to get it started?

[flexysteve]

Its a 93 camry with the 5sfe. Thanks for everyones help. Also its not throwing any codes.

[Davee]

Originally Posted by virtualkuz

Will your cam start with its block at -30? and is that C or F? or do you have to use an engine heater just to get it started?

I am quoting centrigrade but they are both the same at minus 40 so little difference at -30

Normally I plug in a block heater & battery warmer at least 3 hours before starting. The battery warmer is the most effective but the block heater saves on cold weather wear & tear

I have a year old battery & I clean the terminals religously every fall

I use a semi synthethic oil which improves engine turnover in the cold as well.

Without the plug ins I started OK with air temperature -26C & block probably -30C

With the heaters never had a start problem . This is a 97 LE 4 cylinder

I find even with rad covered & new T/S I cannot get the coolant to operating temperature at anything worse than minus ~~22C == so heater performance is disappointing. I am thinking of putting a homemade blanket over the block & head so air stream is deflected Anyone try this B4?

[virtualkuz]

I wouldn't put a blanket in the engine compartment, there is too much chance of it getting mangled in the serp belt or numerous other maladies. I would consider making a shroud to go over the engine out of real thin metal like the type they use in air ducts.

At that cold the thermostat is most likely staying completly closed, it is the bleed hole that you are fighting against.

What you need to get your engine hotter is a TURBO!!!

It would probably be the first application to use a turbo for heat rather than speed

[toysarefun]

This is a common problem for the 5sfe, when it won't start did you try feathering the gas a little, JUST A LITTLE, while cranking? Anyways.., I have the same problem, once it starts or the pistons start banging around inside there, I've got to give it gas to keep it going, until its warmed up, then it finally gets better. I would have had the problem diagnosed at the dealership already, but I've had it into the dealership for three other things so far and they say nothing about it, I asked the master mechanic and he said replace your IACV, unfortunately its a $200 part. Another recent poster said replacing his battery fixed your same problem. That ECT sensor is a $25 part, you can try replacing that on your own, but I don't think thats the problem. You should have your throttle body, or at least your throttle plate cleaned, that will probably help some, but thats not going to fix it either.

Please post what you find out to be the problem, we have many threads hanging out here on this forum with similar problems, and no good answers.

[flexysteve]

Brought it to the shop and the starting issue turned out to be the coolant temp sensor. However its still idling rough when it warms up. It doesn't stall but it jumps up and down a little bit.

Thanks

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by flexysteve

However its still idling rough when it warms up. It doesn't stall but it jumps up and down a little bit.

I'm gunna say its the IACV (idle air control valve). It controls the throttle body bypass airflow when the engine is at idle.

Most of the problems with the IACV are due to it being clogged. You can try cleaning it out with carb/throttle body cleaner.

See the 2nd post in the link below for instructions:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t27066.html

[Mike Gerber]

flexysteve,

Follow 88LE's advice and also clean out the entire throttle body at the same time. Do a search for "throttle body cleaning".

Mike

[flexysteve]

son of a bitch. today it wouldn't start again. i'm really starting to hate this thing. the problem is how intermittent it is.

back to the drawing board. IACV is next it looks like. thanks for everyones help

[chronoti]

my question would be how old is the battery? 10 degresse when it that cold can drop off alot of amps to keep it from starting ....... if you can next time it not starting try to get it jump started if it starts then you found your problem

my cam on 60 weather wouldnt start when the battery was going out and started in 75 degree ....