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Hey Guys!
I am working on a 1986 Camry...the motor is the single cam 4 cyl 2 liter.
The car died the other day while it was being driven under a lihght load. When I got it home I checked for spark and there was none. I suspected it was the distributor (after I had done a few tests) and got a used one at the junk yard. I set the crank at TDC asuming that the cam was being set in the process as well. When the new distributor didn't fix the problem I realized right away...DUH! The rotor wasn't moving...TIMING BELT! Well now to the problem. When I took the #2 cover off on top, the cam was set at TDC, and the rotor was pointing to the #1 spark plug on the cap. How could this be? what are the odds that the motor just died on TDC. I continued with the process of installing the belt. Somebody had previously changed the belt on this car and had scribed marks in the cam pully and head that made setting the cam at TDC really easy (actually I never set the cam at TDC because aparently the car died on TDC). But when I looked in the book to see where TDC was on the cam, it said that TDC on the cam is when the "E" is pointing at 12:00 and the hole underneath the "E" is lined up with the hole in the head. I was confused at that point, because the hole wasn't under the "E" it was opposite the "E" and this hole WAS lined up with the hole in the head. I continued to install the belt. When I got the thing all back together and went to start it up, it cranked and ran but kinda sputter and then died. When I tried to crank it again, it sounded like it was miss firing and a little smoke bellows out of the motor. I took it all apart and put it back together three times and I get the same result every time. Before I even put it back together I crank it by hand 720 degrees and all the marks line up fine. The one thing I am concerned about is through the entire process of changing the belt and moving the crank, I had the car in park, but the crank still turned just fine. Is that a problem? In short, I am not sure if I got it timed right, although I am lining all the timing marks up on the cam and the crank, the cam marks though don't jive with whats in the book. I am really lost right now, because I can't do anything else other than what I have already done three times in one day. Please help and THANKS FOR READING THIS
theres a reason why your car stopped where it did, and that is your valve springs. if you got everything lined up then that part is set up right, but since you have a new dizzy, you need to get a timing gun so you can set timing to what it normally is.
You want the cam and crank at TDC, then install the belt.
After the belt is installed and the tensioner is tightened, rotate the crank from TDC to TDC (720 degrees / 2 full turns) and check alignment of cam and crank.
For the 2S-E (USA engine). Line up the hole underneath the E mark to the mark on the oil seal retainer. Oil seal retainer is right behind the cam gear (the gear the timing belt goes around and the thing with the E mark).
This is just for the cam. You also need to align the crank to TDC (0 degrees) using the notch on the crank pulley and the markings on the lower timing belt cover.
I guess this one I am working on is a Canadian model b/c there is no hole on the"E" mark. It is opposite the "E" just like your picture shows. If that is the case, then I do have everything lined up. Before I tightened the tensioner I went around 720 degrees and everything still lined up fine.
The comment about the distributor being out of phase, it is pointing at the #1 spark plug wire, and I lined the little notch in the gear with the shaft when I installed it. What do you mean it could be out of phase? I could see on a distributor that was round and could turn 360 degrees, but this one obviously only goes in one way.
The other question is...I have gotten the car to start, but it doesn't run for long. I have tried to move the distributor to time it while it was running and one way or the other it never sounded any better...the car just dies. So I am not sure timing it at this point is the problem...or is it?
The other thing that really bothers me is that my book sources, including the link you supplied that explains the process (I have that link too..thanks for posting it) says to set the crank at TDC by lining the mark up with the "O" on the cover. After the belt is reinstalled, then it says to turn the crank 90 degrees to TDC. What does that mean? I thought it was already on TDC, moving it 90 degrees takes it off TDC! I tried that the second time I installed the belt and nothing changed.
Thanks for responding.
The comment about the distributor being out of phase, it is pointing at the #1 spark plug wire, and I lined the little notch in the gear with the shaft when I installed it. What do you mean it could be out of phase? I could see on a distributor that was round and could turn 360 degrees, but this one obviously only goes in one way.
Does the end of the distributor shaft have a gear like this?
On the 2nd type above, its possible to rotate the distributor shaft and have it 180 degrees out of phase.
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The other question is...I have gotten the car to start, but it doesn't run for long. I have tried to move the distributor to time it while it was running and one way or the other it never sounded any better...the car just dies. So I am not sure timing it at this point is the problem...or is it?
Something else is going on.
Do you have compression, fuel, and spark on all cylinders?
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The other thing that really bothers me is that my book sources, including the link you supplied that explains the process (I have that link too..thanks for posting it) says to set the crank at TDC by lining the mark up with the "O" on the cover. After the belt is reinstalled, then it says to turn the crank 90 degrees to TDC. What does that mean? I thought it was already on TDC, moving it 90 degrees takes it off TDC! I tried that the second time I installed the belt and nothing changed.
That part doesn't make any sense at all.
TDC is 0, not 90 degrees from it. I think they meant to say rotate the crank clockwise 90 degrees from TDC.
After that it says to torque the no. 1 idler pulley set bolt.
I don't follow all the steps in the book. What I do is set the crank and cam at TDC. Install the belt. Install tensioner + spring and torque it down. Rotate crank from TDC to TDC (720 degrees / 2 full turns) and check alignment.
I've done a few timing belts this way on a 3S, 5S, and 7M. Never had a problem.
It is knida like the first link, but without a vacume advance and igniter in the distributor. The gear though is the same.
I have not checked compression, spark...I am getting fuel though b/c I can smell it. I remember now, when I took out the plugs the second time I installed the belt, the first time I installed I left them in and justed muscled it. I put new plugs in the car a few days ago before I suspected timing belt, so they have never been used. #2, #3, and #4 all looked like they were firing, but #1 looked new still and was covered in gas. That one isn't firing, but why? I have checked the plugs, wires, the cap is new and so is the rotor. What else could I have done to make the #1 or any of them not fire? I have checked vacume hoses, fuel lines etc.
The car is forty five minutes away from me, so I gues when I get down there and do a compression and spark test I can tell you more.
Thanks for workin through this with me
Another question to your response: Can I turn the cam and/or crank without the belt being installed...I thought that was a no no. I have the cam marks lined up, but is it possible that they are lined up on the wrong stroke i.e. intake or exhaust, or does lining the marks up put it at TDC no matter what. Is it just important for me to get the marks lined up and thats it?
I put new plugs in the car a few days ago before I suspected timing belt, so they have never been used. #2, #3, and #4 all looked like they were firing, but #1 looked new still and was covered in gas. That one isn't firing, but why? I have checked the plugs, wires, the cap is new and so is the rotor. What else could I have done to make the #1 or any of them not fire?
Find out whats going on with #1. Could be a plug, wire, or a dead cylinder (hopefully its not this).
I would start by checking for spark. I'm sure you know how to do this, so I won't go into it.
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The car is forty five minutes away from me, so I gues when I get down there and do a compression and spark test I can tell you more.
Thanks for workin through this with me
No prob. Let us know what you find out.
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Another question to your response: Can I turn the cam and/or crank without the belt being installed...I thought that was a no no.
Yes, you can. Its not going to hurt anything.
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I have the cam marks lined up, but is it possible that they are lined up on the wrong stroke i.e. intake or exhaust, or does lining the marks up put it at TDC no matter what. Is it just important for me to get the marks lined up and thats it?
Just line the marks up like you said.
TDC is TDC. Doesn't matter if its TDC on exhaust or compression stroke, the engine will figure it out when you start it up.
I may be reaching here, but if it were me I would put the old distributor cap, rotor and just that number 1 plug wire back on and try to start it again. It should only take about 5 minutes. It wouldn't be the first time a new part was defective right out of the box. You know now your old parts were working as it was the timing belt that broke. This will eliminate those new parts from being the problem. Just my 2 cents.
Well I have a 1989 3s-fe and aligned crank to 0 and cam to a line on bearing cap and peaked under distributor cover to verify i was #1. Car starts up and idles rather well but shortly after I drive away and head up a hill I am donefor. Whats killing my power under load? Is there any way to disable anything to drive it with power up a hill?
fyi: the cam bearing cap has two deceptive marks and I am not 100 % sure which one to use. My chilton book shows a whole in the web directly over another hole. The only problem there is, is that the mark at 12 oclock is a vertical indent and the circular hole is at about 10 oclock or 1 inch away from 12 oclock. So which is it? I got it running and started lined up with the line. I tried yesterday to start it with the two circles lined up but would not get any explosions in the cylinders. Has Chilton just made an editorial oversight or does it really go to that dot at 10 oclock?
Ok, all of the cylinders are getting spark. I did a comp. check and although the gauge I have is old and is the type you have to hold down, all of the cylinders are firing and are within about the same range of each other. I wasn't too worried about what the compression was, but more concerned with whether I was getting compression at all. I will have to get a better guage.
The second interesting thing is when I went to put the plugs back in, the #3 plug (which is brand new) was cracked! AH HA! I put the old one back in and went to fire it up...no start and it still sounds the same (like it's not firing right). So now I am really lost.
OK, a quick update. i had my father turn the car over while I rotated to distributor and held the throttle. I was able to get it started and ran it for about a minute. It runs really rough, and there is a thump noise every so often...like a piston isn't hitting at the right time. it definately sounds like it is only running on three cylinders, but all the cylinders are firing. My compression test proved that.
Any ideas?
fyi: the cam bearing cap has two deceptive marks and I am not 100 % sure which one to use.
1. You should of started your own thread. Its rude to highjack someone elses thread, but whatever.
2. The cam bearing cap only has one mark. The mark (indent) is right in the middle of the cap.
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My chilton book shows a whole in the web directly over another hole. The only problem there is, is that the mark at 12 oclock is a vertical indent and the circular hole is at about 10 oclock or 1 inch away from 12 oclock.
Wrong. If the hole on the camgear is at 10 o'clock, you don't have it lined up correctly. Which would explain your power loss due to the cam timing being retarded (no pun intended).
You line up the little hole in the camgear to the mark (indent) on the bearing cap.
My father was a tool distributor for a while and he knows a Toyota guy. He suggested that I short the "T" and "E1" in the diagnostic port with a paper clip and then and only then would I be able to time it. He thinks it is just a timing issue. I started to do this, but then the battery died from all of the starting and cranking I have done this weekend. So now I have to wait until it charges
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Timing Belt Trouble
, but the crank still turned just fine. Is that a problem? In short, I am not sure if I got it timed right, although I am lining all the timing marks up on the cam and the crank, the cam marks though don't jive with whats in the book. I am really lost right now, because I can't do anything else other than what I have already done three times in one day. Please help and THANKS FOR READING THIS
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