Engine swap question

[4DoorsofFury]

Im very confused about the relationship betweent the S series engines and the F and G models. i first planned to get a full engine swap with a 3s-gte, but now im wondering is there a way swap from FE to GE without a whole engine swap? did anyone understand that and do i make sense?

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by 4DoorsofFury

Im very confused about the relationship betweent the S series engines and the F and G models. i first planned to get a full engine swap with a 3s-gte, but now im wondering is there a way swap from FE to GE without a whole engine swap? did anyone understand that and do i make sense?

Ok, certain years of 5S-FE ( early 3rd Gens ) can use the 3S-GTE head ( basically, like a hyrbid motor). With minor or no modification, need to fit the head onto the 5S-FE short block. Ok, I'll let the cat out of the bag... here's the how to do hybrid motor from your friendly neighborhood Wraith:

°Drill and tap oil filter side of block to accommodate turbo oil feed. Drill and tap the stock 5S-FE oil pan for turbo oil return line. Or use the 3S-GTE oil pan ...

°Ported oil channels for better and less restrictive oil flow.

°Port and polished 3S-GTE oil pump.

°3S-GTE water pump.

°All new bearings including thrust bearing, (clearance at 0.002).

°Balanced crank and crank assembly.

°Forged Pauter I-beam connecting rods, for 5S-FE.

°87.5 mm Forged pistons with 8.8:1CR and custom pin hieght(which is stock on USspec. and J-spec. 2nd gen 3S-GTE), but you can run any compression you want.

° .95mm Head Gasket or Deck block to smooth finish for steel gasket setup. And you can run any thickness you want.

°Custom flywheel ( I havent gotten this far in my research).

°Thrust Bearing ( 5s-fe or 3s-gte depending with tranny your running).

°New engine gaskets and seels.

°Fitting for 3S-GTE dip stick.

°Oil fittings and braided lines.

°Modified 5SFE fuel rail to fit 3S-GTE head with bosch injector setup.

°Boost dependant fuel regulator.

°3S-GTE cambelt.

°3S-GTE cambelt tensioner.

°3S-GTE idler pulleys.

°3S-GTE head bolt or ARp head studs.

I think thats it off the top of my head. But, I'll add more later if I remember anything extra... Hope this helps...


Addition to the above information: 8/25/02 7:01pm

° 3S-GTE ecu

° 3S-GTE igniters

° 3S-GTE harness needs to be mated to the 5S-FE harness

° 3S-GTE map sensor

° 3S-GTE MAF sensor

° 3S-GTE cap , rotor, wires

° 3S-GTE or better fuel pump

° 3S-GTE 440cc injectors

[OU8MYDUST]

What are we looking at price wise here?

[4DoorsofFury]

so basically its like a rebuild/conversion. now i have the gen4 5sfe (98)...will the same requirements apply? btw this is good news because i already had plans to do heavy internal upgrades to whatever engine i had anyways. also.....how much more expensive will it be to get the 3s-ge head with the VVT-i cam phasing?

i didnt understand about the drilling and tapping for oil supply to the turbo and from. can you expand a little on that please. thnx a bunch wraith...i know must sound like a little wannabe fuck lol.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by 4DoorsofFury

so basically its like a rebuild/conversion. now i have the gen4 5sfe (98)...will the same requirements apply? btw this is good news because i already had plans to do heavy internal upgrades to whatever engine i had anyways. also.....how much more expensive will it be to get the 3s-ge head with the VVT-i cam phasing?

i didnt understand about the drilling and tapping for oil supply to the turbo and from. can you expand a little on that please. thnx a bunch wraith...i know must sound like a little wannabe f**k lol.

ok your only chance of doing this with out costing you an arm and a leg is getting yourself a '92 5S-FE Block off a 3rd Gen camry this is the only I that I have experience with that doesnt need and major modifications to fit the 3S-GTE head.

Drill and tapping is required because the turbo requires a oil reurtn and feed line...

as for 3s-ge beams motor or the Altezza 3s-ge with 4 individual throttle bodies ??? That I dont know that to me is unexplored territory... Sorry, I wish I can be more helpfull on that nieghborhood... Maybe when I do a swap on my TA22 '72 Celica; I'll let you know. The Altezza 3S-GE with 4 individual throttle bodies is one of the engines I'm thinking of swapping into my Celica...

[4DoorsofFury]

Originally Posted by OU8MYDUST

What are we looking at price wise here?

sounds like 5 grand or more to me....but i like the idea of the rebuild better than the swap.........and itll prolly cost the same

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by OU8MYDUST

What are we looking at price wise here?

I'm sorry, Not to be an asshole... but come on dude!!! Do your research ... I'm already giving you all the information from my own findings. And you want me to find you prices ??? Come on !!! I dont need to be spoon feedin you ...

This is my major problem with some of you young guys in our community. You guys have to do your own research. Us old guys are here to help you guys out, when ever we can ... But, you need to go out there and find things out yourself...experience what some of us old guys had to go thru. You need to put some time and effort into your car ...

I mean hey ... I'll build you this motor ... In fact you want mine the one I'm building ... Hows $15,000 for a my 5S-GTE sound ??? Hows that price hit you ...

[4DoorsofFury]

Originally Posted by Wraith

ok your only chance of doing this with out costing you an arm and a leg is getting yourself a '92 5S-FE Block off a 3rd Gen camry this is the only I that I have experience with that doesnt need and major modifications to fit the 3S-GTE head.

Drill and tapping is required because the turbo requires a oil reurtn and feed line...

as for 3s-ge beams motor or the Altezza 3s-ge with 4 individual throttle bodies ??? That I dont know that to me is unexplored territory... Sorry, I wish I can be more helpfull on that nieghborhood... Maybe when I do a swap on my TA22 '72 Celica; I'll let you know. The Altezza 3S-GE with 4 individual throttle bodies is one of the engines I'm thinking of swapping into my Celica...

well shit that stopped me in my tracks.....i think its more cost effectice just to a full out swap........do you by any chance know what the main difference between the 3s block and the 5s block is?

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by 4DoorsofFury

well sh*t that stopped me in my tracks.....i think its more cost effectice just to a full out swap........do you by any chance know what the main difference between the 3s block and the 5s block is?

Hey bro... the only difference is... the 5S-FE block is taller , the 5S-FE rod is longer and the rod ratios are different from the 3S-GTE, the cylinders is 87mm bore instead of 86 mm bore for the 3S-GTE, the stroke is 92mm instead of 86mm, and the most weird difference is the 3S-GTE works under a vacuum...

The head on the other hand is way different.
the 5S-FE head is dohc which is scissor drive ( only one cam is being spinned by your timing belt) while the 3S-GTE head is full and true dohc, The 5S-FE head had a very narrow burn pattern in the valves, The 5S-FE has smaller valves, etc...

[4DoorsofFury]

Originally Posted by Wraith

I'm sorry, Not to be an asshole... but come on dude!!! Do your research ... I'm already giving you all the information from my own findings. And you want me to find you prices ??? Come on !!! I dont need to be spoon feedin you ...

This is my major problem with some of you young guys in our community. You guys have to do your own research. Us old guys are here to help you guys out, when ever we can ... But, you need to go out there and find things out yourself...experience what some of us old guys had to go thru. You need to put some time and effort into your car ...

I mean hey ... I'll build you this motor ... In fact you want mine the one I'm building ... Hows $15,000 for a my 5S-GTE sound ??? Hows that price hit you ...

dude the reason why im asking you guys here is because im having trouble doing my research.......i dont know where to find information about the 5s-fe and the 3s-gte and there relationship.....so i take what i can find about them.....bring it here......and hope somehow can make some sense out of it

and believe me i do my research...i mean i didnt know what an alternator was about 3 months ago......and now that im getting deeper.....im finding it very hard to find information. but hey i guess we should say we are sorry for putting a burden on you old guys

i dont want to be the naive little car kid...but what am i to do...when poeple say im just the naive little car kid?

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by 4DoorsofFury

dude the reason why im asking you guys here is because im having trouble doing my research.......i dont know where to find information about the 5s-fe and the 3s-gte and there relationship.....so i take what i can find about them.....bring it here......and hope somehow can make some sense out of it

and believe me i do my research...i mean i didnt know what an alternator was about 3 months ago......and now that im getting deeper.....im finding it very hard to find information. but hey i guess we should say we are sorry for putting a burden on you old guys

i dont want to be the naive little car kid...but what am i to do...when poeple say im just the naive little car kid?

sorry bro that wasnt for you ... it was towards "OU8MYDUST"

[4DoorsofFury]

well.....um......sorry..........i feel stupid lol

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by 4DoorsofFury

well.....um......sorry..........i feel stupid lol

No Problem bro... I love answering you guys questions... It tickles my mind to think about ... Its an excersise for my mind, I just dont like it when people ask me for pricess of stuff I dont even sell...

These threads are the types I love ... Its very informative and it helps out alot of the new guys on the community...

[kgasso]

Originally Posted by Wraith

No Problem bro... I love answering you guys questions... It tickles my mind to think about ... Its an excersise for my mind, I just dont like it when people ask me for pricess of stuff I dont even sell...

These threads are the types I love ... Its very informative and it helps out alot of the new guys on the community...

And they keep stupid people like me from asking the same question and blasting my self-perceived ego :wink: