More suspension *56k friendly* (diagrams/images)

[95WhiteCamry]

Hi all. This is not another question about “which brand should I choose” or “how do you like the ride with your new suspension” kinda thread. So let’s get down to business.



Everyone always says: if you get new springs, get new struts. But has anyone clearly mentioned why? Exactly. New springs with installation may run up to about 300. Struts are about 400 with installation if not more. So if someone is going just for looks with springs by lowering the car, why bother getting new struts as well? Unless they’re blown or the car will be used for auto-cross like some members here do, then why do new struts have to be purchased with new springs?



Let’s get into the technical stuff now:



For illustration purposes, let’s say this is the stock suspension set-up

• 

during driving, the spring compresses and decompresses. The strut controls compression and decompression which ultimately keeps the car from bouncing. Now lets say we put lowering springs on the same stock strut. As an illustration, here’s what it may look like:

• 

let’s say that it’s a 1 inch drop. With that in mind, the strut is now going to be compressed a bit more continuously. However, that shouldn’t be any reason as to why it may wear out more. The strut is never fully decompressed because the weight of the car is always pushing down on it. Now let’s say that you’re driving and you hit a speed bump. The spring compresses. With stock springs, it may look like this:

• 

With lowering springs, like this:

• 

Side by side comparison:

• normal
  • 
• compressed
  
  • 

Bottoming out is referred to when you may hit a dip and the strut compresses all the way down. Although with lowering springs the strut will be generally more compressed, it also won’t compress as fast or as deep anymore. The new springs are most likely stiffer than the old stock ones so on impact, they won’t compress too much as to let the strut bottom out more often. Here’s what daily driving and hitting a speed bump may look like with stock springs(left) and lowering springs (right)








EDIT: .swf files won't work here. please visit links.
stock springs: http://photobucket.com/albums/v519/a...nt=spring1.swf
lowering springs: http://photobucket.com/albums/v519/a...nt=spring2.swf

So finally, here is my question:

• Why are new struts ever so necessary when buying lowering springs? I honestly don’t see how they will wear out more. Sure, it’s convenient to put new struts in while changing the springs but are there any other reasons as to why it should be done like that? My stock springs and struts have 100k miles on them so I know my springs aren’t as stiff as new lowering ones would be. So wouldn’t the stiffness compensate enough for the way the strut will act? Thank you and I await feedback.

P.s.: this is posted in the camry forum simply because I myself drive one and would be willing to upgrade my suspension in it. I also see how this could be put into the general discussion as it applies to other cars as well. Mods: if you want to move this thread, go ahead.



p.p.s. If you want to, go ahead and flame on this thread and call me a noob or whatever but I just want some final clarification.

[CDub LXi]

I have 90k miles on my stock struts. I'm lowered on Tein S.Techs (approx 1.5" drop in the front). I have no complaints about ride quality and my struts do not bottom out.

Each person's car is different and two cars with the EXACT same setup CAN handle/sit differently.

[95WhiteCamry]

c'mon folks... almost 100 views and only one person has the decency to respond.
there's tons of people always wanting to pitch in their 2 cents about suspension.

[alxch1n16]

im just taking a crack at it, but my guess would be that because struts gain their pressure through being gas charged, and as you keep minimizing the amount of space available for movement, and with outside elements impacting the struts, you increase your chance of wearing out the struts. very high inside pressure, that is constantly changing, very low outside pressure, combined with small objects being thrown at the car at very high speeds. also because of the very high constantly changing pressure within the strut, that creates friction/heat. which also as physics will tell us that as heat goes up, so does pressure. so while these struts can take a beating, i guess they can only take so much. as a recommended replacement, i would say do it at 100k miles just to be safe, i think its recommended that the struts be replaced at 60k miles. you dont want to be driving cross country or something and have a couple of struts go out.

also, they say replace them because then they can have your money, and by they, i mean repair shops. the fact is that it takes 20 mins to get a strut out, spring compressed and new spring on and back in. i did it in 20, and thats only after having done one strut. it cost me 40 dollars for a pair of struts, so saying it costs a shop 40 for struts too, they can keep a lot of your money.

alex

[Keep]

I think another reason they strongly suggest new shocks/struts is to counteract the different spring rates.

However, if you're not AutoXing and generally aren't going to need modified bump/rebound rates for your struts, sticking to the stockers might be an economical way to go.

[alxch1n16]

i was thinking that too, but what is a good pair/match for springs and struts? sorry to kinda hijack the thread, i want to replace my rear struts as they sound like an old couple trying to have sex. really nasty

[Eye8Pussies]

yes and no to that statement about it being okay to stay on stock struts...

yes for simple driving....but for any sort of aggressive driving, it's a bad idea, even if you're no auto-xing....

at lower speeds, the rebound rate on the stock struts are decent and serviceable....but when you start doing highspeed cornering (highways, ramps, etc) and you hit any bumps, the lack of rebound can be deadly......under okay and not totally extreme conditions, you'll just get that "airy" feel as though your rear/front is floating....but if you are pushing your tires/suspension to the max, that simple bump and "airy" feel can easily turn into air time

so if you can't afford it, use stock struts but be carefu and get some new stiffer struts as soon as possiblel....if you can afford it, then make sure you do stiffer struts at the same time