big difference between rear drum and front/rear disc brake - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

kthan · 09-02-2005, 07:23 PM

I am in the market to find a new car and I am thinking LE (4cylinder) due to gas mileage.

Today, I test drove a new 05 LE (I4) and was disappointed at their poor braking performance. I currently have 2000 LE V6 (front/rear disc brakes) and did not realize how well the brake works until I drove this brand new LE (w/rear drum).

Is that really normal? I read a review from edmunds.com (for comparing 05 Camry, Accord and Sonata) and they criticize the poor performance of rear drum brake in Camry. On the other hand, they praised good braking performance of 04 XLE in their family sedan test (2004 model).

Now I have a dilemma. The only way I can get rear disc brake is to go with either XLE or V6 (more money, more gas). Or, I can make a special order for GU package (that includes, VSC with brake assist--rear disc).

I don't know how you experience about the braking performance of your car.

I also noticed more vibration when I stopped (at the signal) in LE I4 and little more engine noise. I do know it is unavoidable in smaller engine. But, I can't bear with poor performance of rear drum in LE. I might get used to but need a lot of energy to hard press the brake.

dexter_5000 · 09-02-2005, 07:29 PM

drums are a better than disc in the rear of a vehicle. i think its 90% of the stopping power is all in the front brakes. disc brakes just look better. couldn't you do some kind of swap to a rear disc if you really want disc anyway?

PBM · 09-02-2005, 07:33 PM

I don't think you should greatly notice braking due to rear brakes since most of your stopping power comes from the front. i own an 05 LE i4 and it brakes well and i didn't notice much difference between my car and an XLE i drove at work (i drive new cars from piers to dealerships/storage) if you noticed vibration and engine noise, then there is something wrong with that car. especially if you feel like you need a lot of energy to hard press the brake. i've had my 05 LE since august of last year and it has never done such things. i don't feel any vibration at stops in my car other than what might be coming from my stereo.

or all of that could mean moot unless your driving habits are aggressive and you need to slam your brakes a lot = )

kthan · 09-02-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBM

if you noticed vibration and engine noise, then there is something wrong with that car. especially if you feel like you need a lot of energy to hard press the brake. i've had my 05 LE since august of last year and it has never done such things. i don't feel any vibration at stops in my car other than what might be coming from my stereo.

or all of that could mean moot unless your driving habits are aggressive and you need to slam your brakes a lot = )

What I meant by "more vibration" at stops can be very minimal. With my current LE V6, I did not notice any type of vibration at all. But, the LE 05 I test drove had just a little bit of vibration (similar to the vibration feeling I had on Nissan Altima (GXE, 4 cylinder) in the past. Still the camry (I4) is one of the quietest car, but I am little diasppointed at the vibration. I also rented a Chevy Malibu (I don't know if it has V4 or V6) but they had less vibration at stops than Camrys (but, of course, they had way more engine noise than Camry). I did test drive two 05 LEs at the dealership and they are pretty similar at vibration. Again, it is not big vibration, but noticeable and annoying (at least to me who got used to my current LE V6).

Also, I might be little exaggerated by expressing "a lot of engergy," but 05 LE I test drove definitely need noticeable more power to stop at the desirable location.

I didn't compare the two for its quick stop performance (by pressing brake hardest enough). What I did was just fairly lesisure driving (it is a test drive with a dealer next to me at the heavy traffic), mayby 20-40mph. I did feel it seems to be slide, rather than promptly stop.

PBM · 09-02-2005, 08:19 PM

would it be attributable to them being new cars? i feel all kinds of braking in the new cars i drive. some feel nice and firm like they catch right away, some feel spongy, some are soft and do the slow to a stop smoothly thing.

kthan · 09-02-2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBM

would it be attributable to them being new cars? i feel all kinds of braking in the new cars i drive. some feel nice and firm like they catch right away, some feel spongy, some are soft and do the slow to a stop smoothly thing.

If then, would they become identical after a while? Or, do I have to choose the right one which gives me a nice, firm feeling? I am somewhat surprised at different feelings of brake in identical cars.

nodrogkam · 09-02-2005, 09:00 PM

cars feel better once they're broken in. I had the same complaints about the highlander when i drove it, but once our family purchased it and my mom drove it for the break in period, i now feel that its a totally different car. feels more responsive, smoother etc.

The car just hasnt gotten a chance to settle in yet.

skewe · 09-03-2005, 08:08 AM

Doesn't the SE come with rear disc?
I know the XLE and V6 has it but i am 80 % sure the SE has it.

kenny1773 · 09-03-2005, 09:01 AM

I have a 2005 I-4 SE and yes it came with disk brakes the whole way around.

These brakes NEEEDED to break in. I was a little turned off at first as well, the brakes seemed to struggle the first couple hundred miles (meaning I had to put a lot of pedal pressure to stop).

After about 1000 miles, they were great. Far less pedal pressure and they stop perfectly well in all conditions now. I do also drive a RAV 4 so it's not that "I" just got use to the brakes over time, they really did break in.

Kep · 09-03-2005, 10:32 AM

I always understood that the more cylinders an engine had the less it would "vibrate". Going from a six to a four would probably be noticeable. I have always been mileage conscious and don't require power to pass. The little four cylinder engines do fine. I have a 90 Camry that still gets 30+ mpg on the highway and often cruises at 75 - 80 with no problem. I just have to allow more room to accelerate.

I always associate better braking with disc brakes. It's true that most of the braking comes from the front but discs in the rear should improve the braking distance. However, you do learn to compensate for the car you have. If you opt for the drum brake version drive a little more defensively the first few months to allow you to accustom yourself to the longer braking distance. Once you allow for the extra braking distance you should be OK but it will never brake as quickly if you are an aggressive driver. If you plan to buy a Toyota why not get the better 4 cylinder package? If you keep it until it wears out you're going to have it a loooong time, so enjoy the amenities. If you sell it soon you'll get a better sales price, especially if you baby it.

Either way, you'll have a fine car.

Kep

05CamryGuy · 09-03-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kthan

...
Now I have a dilemma. The only way I can get rear disc brake is to go with either XLE or V6 (more money, more gas). Or, I can make a special order for GU package (that includes, VSC with brake assist--rear disc).
...

Well, if you would like to stay with an LE and get the GU package, it isn't really a bad thing. You're actually getting more safety features with the VSC system (and I think the side curtain air bags come along with this package too). I would recommend that route - from experience having the VSC save me from my stupidity many times.

Just as other members tated, most of your braking power come from the front. The rear don't contribute so much - so it doesn't matter if they're drums or disks.

PBM · 09-03-2005, 05:29 PM

LE has a handbrake and that is fun. = )

kthan · 09-04-2005, 09:55 AM

Thanks for all of your replies. I test drove another LE and SE today and confirmed that difference between the two in braking performance. The brake in SE feels exactly same as my current one in LE V6...firmer and no mushy feeling.

Another thing I noticed is that engine noise is also noticeably less in SE, compared to LE. It is interesting because they both have the same I4 engine (I am wondering if it further quieter in XLE than in SE). Vibration is still there but very little (not much noticeable as LE).

In SE, Handling is a lot tighter (esp. when I make a turn) and ride is not much bumpy as I expected. With standard sunroof, upgraded interior, and better suspension (to me), I would go with SE (I don't have to go up to XLE for braking)