Injector question...

[97camryman]

Ok I am buying parts for my turbo project now (5S-FTE) and I have run into a questionable area. I am doing a mild 6-7 psi turbo setup and I want to run 360cc injectors since my goal is only around 180whp. "TheamazingNate" raN 315'S on his setup and they were a bit too small. Based on this I want some 360cc injectors. Now heres where I am confused, will SUPRA 2JZ-GE GREEN TOP INJECTORS RUN AT 360CC/MIN AT A CAMRYS STOCK FUEL PRESSURE? I have an opportunity to pick up a set for a good deal and I would like to know. It seems to me that the 2JZ-GE (Non turbo / NA) green top top feed high impedance injectors should work but I want to be sure. Please only answer if you know. I am not looking for anyones opinions on any other part of my system right now just injectors. Thank you in advance.

[Hamsterman]

from what i know, 360's work well, that is i believe what allen was running, as long as they are toyota high imp. top feeds, you are gonna be good... i had a set of NA lexus 2JZ injectors, and they were 315's. they were the brown tops, the green top 360's that you are looking at -seem to be what a lot of mr2 guys like, so i would say go for them if you got a good deal

- just make sure the flow rates are still good if they are used, and buy some new o-rings

[88 LE]

They'll work.

My friend used the same injectors on his turbo 5S-FE.

[terrastrife]

for the replies, remember he is asking with stock fuel pressure, so that probably means the stock fuel pump as well, which at WOT MAY NOT flow enough for 4 360cc injectors.

[97camryman]

Originally Posted by terrastrife

for the replies, remember he is asking with stock fuel pressure, so that probably means the stock fuel pump as well, which at WOT MAY NOT flow enough for 4 360cc injectors.

Nope, I have done my homework unlike most newbies who post up these type of questions. I will run a Walbro 255 lph fp with an Accufab 1:1 rising rate FPR to keep the fuel pressure steady under boost. I was planning on just running the stock Camry fuel pressure though which is like 40psi I think? Then I am doing a Greddy Emanage with a Greddy profec B EBC to even out the injectors and I am taking it to have it tuned by the same guy who tuned Nate's setup. Stock CT26 with a 3S manifold and a custom DP to 2.5 inch turbo back exhaust. Oil catch can, possibly a turbo timer if I can ever get it to work with my alarm, Gauges (boost, oil pres, EGT) Spark plugs, oil and coolant lines, FMIC with piping and a Greddy BOV are what I have in mind for now. I am picking up the rebuilt turbo and manifold tomorrow along with the injectors and possibly an Emanage and the gauges. Its comming along very well and now that I swapped out my automatic for a stick and upgraded to an ACT heavy duty clutch I should be able to put the power down. I will keep you guys updated.

[Hamsterman]

^^ hey man, i know i said lightspeed was ok at first, but i dunno if i would take it to lightspeed anymore

i think they kinda suck again - actually really think they suck... turns out the dude didn't do ANY timing adjustment to my car from what i got after talking to hima few weeks later- so i was/have been getting some knock, i bought an AEM wideband a little bit ago though, so once that is installed - i will be street tuning with my turbo guy...

sounds like you have all the goodies picked out, just finding a good tuner - unless it is yourself - is a bitch, i have learned the hard way by going to 2 shops i thought i could trust, not getting much of anything from either, and beiing left $600 poorer

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by 97camryman

I was planning on just running the stock Camry fuel pressure though which is like 40psi I think?

38 - 44 psi.

Gauges (boost, oil pres, EGT)

Boost and oil pressure is good to have, but I would skip the EGT and get a wideband O2 setup.

Fuel pressure gauge is useful too.

[97camryman]

Thats good to know then. Well shit I thought John at Lightspeed was the Emanage Guy to go to around here. Can I just say hey, pull "x" degrees of timing for each pound of boost and keep my A/F ratio nice and safe? Seems like someone who tunes all day should be able to just go and do it then but any advice is welcome. I am heading out tomorrow to pick up the turbo, green top supra injectors, manifold, and mabe some gauges if I can. I am lucky enough to know a guy who is liquidating his shop right now and all he does is Toyota's. Mainy Supras. Anyways he is hooking me up long story short and he is the experienced old guy looking over my shoulder for me.

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by 97camryman

Can I just say hey, pull "x" degrees of timing for each pound of boost and keep my A/F ratio nice and safe?

Timing and A/F ratio is 2 different things.

You could pull timing, but your A/F could still be rich or lean.

Both the timing and fuel needs to be tuned.

[97camryman]

Originally Posted by 88 LE

Timing and A/F ratio is 2 different things.

You could pull timing, but your A/F could still be rich or lean.

Both the timing and fuel needs to be tuned.

Yeah I realize that A/F and timing are different I guess I just worded it wrong. What I mean is that Nathan said they tuned the A/F ratio but they didnt retard timing at all. The Greddy Emanage has the ability to do timing as well as A/F but for some reason the guy tuning it left the timing alone. Some people do the SAFC to tune the A/F curve but since the SAFC lacks timing adjustment they get an MSD BTM and have it retard the timing a few degrees for each pound of additional boost. The Emanage can do both timing and A/F so my question is, when I have it tuned can I just ask them to retard timing like 2 degrees for each pound of boost (or whatever number you guys recommend) and once thats done tune the A/F ratio so I'm not to lean or too rich anywhere. It seems that then the shop would be able to simply pull the car up on the dyno hook up their laptop and go to town with the two simple goals of retarding timing a set number or degrees per pound of boost and tune the A/F ratio all nice. What do you guys think?

[terrastrife]

dont think an emanage is capable of that (scaling timing with boost), maybe the profec2/emanage thing, but not too sure.

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by 97camryman

What I mean is that Nathan said they tuned the A/F ratio but they didnt retard timing at all.

The Greddy Emanage has the ability to do timing as well as A/F but for some reason the guy tuning it left the timing alone.

Have you seen his dyno printout? Its lean from about 4250 rpm on down. Not good.

You really need to adjust both the timing and fuel.

The Emanage can do both timing and A/F so my question is, when I have it tuned can I just ask them to retard timing like 2 degrees for each pound of boost (or whatever number you guys recommend) and once thats done tune the A/F ratio so I'm not to lean or too rich anywhere.

It seems that then the shop would be able to simply pull the car up on the dyno hook up their laptop and go to town with the two simple goals of retarding timing a set number or degrees per pound of boost and tune the A/F ratio all nice. What do you guys think?

Every engine is different. Pulling 2 degrees per pound of boost might work on one engine. And on another engine is might not work.

Tuning is hard to do. Its a long process of trial and error. Hopefully not much error.


I've helped a friend tune his supercharged Mustang. He's using a Accel DFI (Gen 7+).

The way that we tuned it was to lock the timing at 30 degrees (the engine runs at 30 degrees total all the time). This way we know how much cylinder pressure there is at a given rpm.

We then add or subtract fuel to get the right A/F. It has a map of kpa (airflow) vs. rpm.

The timing is unlocked (computer has control now) and the timing is adjusted. Theres a map just for ignition timing.

Theres a bunch of other adjustments to.

Takes a few days to get everything dialed in, but this is with a full standalone ECU.

[Hamsterman]

^ exactly... i look @ my charts and feel pretty , but those were some of the first dyno charts i had seen...my a/f is waaay too high under the 4K mark... i really want that to be down in the 13's or so, otherwise i am just crusin for a brusin...

all i was saying is that with lightspeed... if they are supposed to be such great tuners, and i have an emanage all wired up with the timing harness specifically wired in and they do not work on it at all AND try to tell me that you just tune the AF until you don't hear knock... i am going to question their practices... know what i mean?

it is one of those things, that the fuel seems alright once i am in the upper rpms.... but i am getting boost from like 2800 rpm and onwards - as will u with the ct-26... that is not good to be running above stoich with pushing the stock motor so hard

i am thinking that on such a specific project as we have, self tuning or carefully trusted friend tuning is going to be the only way to go... to many things to worry about for a person that only likes to tune run of the mill setups

at least this is how i feel @ the moment

[88 LE]

Originally Posted by theamazingnate

^ exactly... i look @ my charts and feel pretty , but those were some of the first dyno charts i had seen...my a/f is waaay too high under the 4K mark... i really want that to be down in the 13's or so, otherwise i am just crusin for a brusin...

I just looked at your dyno printout again.

Its lean from 2700 - 4400 rpm. They must of leaned it out at 4,400 rpm cos thats when it usually goes pig rich. 5S-FE makes peak torque at 4,400 rpm.

Theres a dip at 5000 - 5200.

Torque curve looks good, although theres a flat spot from 3500 - 3700.


I would try to smooth out the A/F curve. 12.5:1 - 12.8:1 is good. Stay towards the rich side, but not to rich.

all i was saying is that with lightspeed... if they are supposed to be such great tuners, and i have an emanage all wired up with the timing harness specifically wired in and they do not work on it at all AND try to tell me that you just tune the AF until you don't hear knock... i am going to question their practices... know what i mean?

So their way of tuning is run as much timing as you want and add fuel to compensate.

it is one of those things, that the fuel seems alright once i am in the upper rpms.... but i am getting boost from like 2800 rpm and onwards - as will u with the ct-26... that is not good to be running above stoich with pushing the stock motor so hard

I agree. Not good to be running lean when your under boost. Thats how I blew my turbo 3S-FE (#4 cylinder running lean).

At low rpms theres more cylinder pressure vs. high rpms.

i am thinking that on such a specific project as we have, self tuning or carefully trusted friend tuning is going to be the only way to go... to many things to worry about for a person that only likes to tune run of the mill setups

Thats one of the reasons why my friend tuned his own engine. But he has experience tuning with a pms, eec tuner, epec, and accel dfi.

[Hamsterman]

^ all good points above man

have no fear guys - once i get the wideband in, i am going to get to see what REAL AF numbers i am getting, and not just on dyno... i will see runs for the early morning, late afternoon, hot days, cold days etc. and then i will be able to make lots more adjustments with all kinds of different conditions vs. a 95 degree garage on the dynojet ...

i just do not have much faith in all of the changes that have been done to this motor, then putting it on a dyno for a few hours and feeling that it is "tuned" After all the time and planning for everything else, tuning is the LAST thing you want to skimp out on... Plus i bet i could be making more power, without more risk to the motor, since i am really hurting my boost getting knock response