Engine Issues after manual conversion - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

JetspeedCamry · 09-10-2005, 09:13 AM

Hey all!
I need advice/ideas on some small problems that i'm working on with my car.
As some would know, I have converted my car to 5 speed recently. The gearbox and conversion is all going well. However, I have 2 small problems which i'd like to figure out to just smoothen things out a bit.

First problem. The car is difficult to drive at low RPM with the clutch fully disengaged in first gear. When driving the car, in gear 1, 2, 3 or 4 the car has a slight "surge" between 1000RPM and 2400RPM. Not very big, but enough to notice it. Could be a lean surge, so just wanting to know if the ECU mapping might have something to do with it. Seeming the ECU now thinks the car is in N or P (from the Auto), it might not be compensating for something. The car doesn't ping at all. And as I said, at low speed/revs when i take out the clutch, it jerks a bit. All of this happens ONLY at partial throttle, not 0 throttle nor anything above say...10% throttle. Just enough to slowly accelerate/hold the car at speed. This surging doesn't make the RPM's "bounce" around, it just sounds like it hesitates a bit.

Second problem. The car's torque is "harshly" applied with minimal throttle movement. For example, in second gear, revving to say, 3000RPM, if I hold it at there, and then slowly release the accelerator until the throttle is closed, the car majorly engine brakes. And then if it's slowing down, and I slowly depress the acclerator (0%TPS to say..3 or 4% TPS) you can really feel it "jerk" as if your applying high throttle..it's a weird problem, but it does affect normal drivability. Especially in traffic. You can also hear this problem when you move the throttle around. For example, in 3rd gear, at lets say, 10% TPS, the car is accelerating quite well. Decreasing the throttle to say, 3% and the exhaust note gets quiet and the car holds the current speed, then decreasing to lower than that, the exhaust starts getting loud again, and the car jerks and starts decelerating. (Hope that makes sense!!

)

Note that I have an ignition computer and my timing is set to around +3 from 10BTDC between 800RPM and 2500RPM.

A friend recommend I change the fuel filter, as when I did the conversion, the car sat for 3-4 weeks without being started.

The car is perfectly fine in it's performance, but i'm looking to smoothen things out a bit.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Axel Kain · 09-10-2005, 11:56 AM

keep in mind that the manual is basically a direct line from engine to wheels, so if you give it a little gas, its noticeable, and if you let off the gas, it WILL SLOW DOWN, probably quickly. usually when i drive a manual, and am slowing down, i either shift down w/brake, or just take it outta gear and brake.
oh and if you have the trottle at like 3000 rpm and let off, that is to be expected(slowing down quickly)
just keep in mind that you cant drive the same with a manual, as an auto. it takes a little time to learn the manual *smooth* style.
hope this helps...

noofa · 09-10-2005, 05:51 PM

I also think that this is a driving style. However i believe you should change your furl filter anyways.

Im not trying to rip on you but def, sounds like driving style. How much manual experience do you have? (prob heaps and im dead wrong.)

xxxavier2k3 · 09-10-2005, 07:43 PM

I don't have any suggestions just wondering what parts were necessary for the swap.
But isn't it necessary to change the ecu for manual applications??

fredk · 09-10-2005, 08:05 PM

hey jet, my 5 speed 3sfe camry is jerky too, its a real mess in 1 gear in traffic, i usually go to 2 just to keep it from bucking, it enging breaks a ton more than my auto camry and is a great deal harder to drive smoothly. I did notice while looking at my e153 that I pulled that the mounts are much stiffer than my s53 trans mounts in my car now, stiffer mounts generally make a car more jerky, and the bigger the motor the more jerky it gets also, you might try adjusting the mass air a couple clicks each way to try to smooth out the power curve some.

JetspeedCamry · 09-10-2005, 08:07 PM

Yea i havn't had THAT much manual driving exp (maybe 2 years with other cars). but still, I have driven other manual cars (abiet, lower powered ones) and they were more smooth. It also doesn't explain the surging I get through the car at cruising speed.

xxxavier2k3 - Search for my manual trans swap thread, you'll get all the info there.

Thanks guys..keep the ideas coming.

EDIT - I'll take some vids at some stage and perhaps ppl can see it a bit better.

fredk · 09-10-2005, 08:39 PM

It sounds like your surge might be a mixture problem if it occures at a steady cruise, look for a vacuume hose off or if the motor is moving around alot, look closely at the big intake tube between the mass air and the motor for looseness or slipping off when the motor moves and cracks comming apart on a stretch, just remember that the motor never moved around as much as it is now, an look for loose grounds and pulled wiring looms, as a last resort try adjusting the mass air a little

JetspeedCamry · 09-11-2005, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredk

look closely at the big intake tube between the mass air and the motor for looseness or slipping off when the motor moves and cracks comming apart on a stretch, just remember that the motor never moved around as much as it is now, an look

Well this man is right on the money...The air intake tube's clamp at the TB was LOOSE AS! and there is(was haha) a big gap, thus drawing air from the gap/bypassing the AFM = running lean i think... And of course, when the engine moves around, the gap would get bigger! I don't know if that IS the problem, ill test it tomorrow arvo.

noofa · 09-11-2005, 06:43 AM

well done fredk

***zoni*** · 09-11-2005, 01:20 PM

good stuff... make sure you pull the EFI fuse for a lil bit to make sure the computer forgets about the problem when you fix that...

i was going to say, i didnt experience any change in engine performance after my swap... just the fact that the power is all going to the ground afterwards... its so great to have all that torque and power... it makes you feel unstoppable. then after a few months, you start wanting a turbo

let us know how it goes. i wanna hear that it is awesome!

jackfrost1031 · 09-11-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredk

It sounds like your surge might be a mixture problem if it occures at a steady cruise, look for a vacuume hose off or if the motor is moving around alot, look closely at the big intake tube between the mass air and the motor for looseness or slipping off when the motor moves and cracks comming apart on a stretch, just remember that the motor never moved around as much as it is now, an look for loose grounds and pulled wiring looms, as a last resort try adjusting the mass air a little

You, sir, are intelligent. Kudos.

If that doesn't do it, make sure your injectors all seated correctly and are not leaking any. When I put my injectors in with new seals and o-rings I messed up an o-ring that sits inside of the fuel rail when I bolted it down and it leaked causing some power issues. That, and lots of raw fuel sitting on the rear head

supamouse09 · 09-11-2005, 04:34 PM

hey i have a manual conversion on my v6 solara and i have the experienced what you are talking about and it is normal.

fredk · 09-11-2005, 06:19 PM

nah jack, i dont think i am a super brain or anything, but i have done driveability for the last 20 years

97camryman · 09-11-2005, 07:44 PM

As far as the park neutral switch issue goes you should hook up the two wires to the clutch start switch. I was worried about having the enigine always think its in park or neutral so I wired it up to the clutch start switch when I did my swap. It works fine and now the engine only sees that its in park/ neutral when you depress the clutch plus the added safetly of having to fully depress the clutch to start the car.

JetspeedCamry · 09-11-2005, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97camryman

As far as the park neutral switch issue goes you should hook up the two wires to the clutch start switch. I was worried about having the enigine always think its in park or neutral so I wired it up to the clutch start switch when I did my swap. It works fine and now the engine only sees that its in park/ neutral when you depress the clutch plus the added safetly of having to fully depress the clutch to start the car.

Very good son! Now that, is a good idea. Can't believe I didn't think of that!

hahaha
This would also make the cruise control work! hahaha