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Old 10-13-2005, 02:19 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Sound Deadening 101 and Acoustical Treatments

This is pretty much everything you need/want to know about sound deadening, sound proofing, and minimizing the hard surface reflections that can cause unwanted soundwave reflections.



BASIC GUIDE TO INSTALLING RAAMmat – BY RICK MCCALLUM, RAAMaudio

Here is what I recommend for a great general sound deadening solution for all vehicles, for audio competition we will have a more comprehensive guide in the near future. This guide was developed from years of experience and a lot of customer feedback, it works very well.

Tools:
Utility knife, used to cut and trim the mat and to rub it down into corners. Heat gun, only used if really cold out to warm up the metal, mat or both, not needed for most installs. Roller, optional.

Front/Rear Doors (With Speakers):
Remove door panel and plastic moisture barrier; toss the barrier in the trash. Clean all surfaces before appling mat. Place one layer of mat on outer door skin and overlap the seams, cover at least 3/4ths of the surface area. Place two additional smaller layers, about 12" sq., behind the speakers, then place one patch of closed cell foam on top of those layers.

Check for loose wires, cables, etc., inside the door, secure with foam tape, tie wraps, etc. Seal up the door access holes with a piece of thin galvanized tin, anodized aluminum or perforated aluminum - aluminum screen door repair panels from your local hardware store works just fine. We prefer perforated aluminum because it is low in weight, easy to form but it is a bit hard to find locally. To secure it we use self taping sheet metal screws.

If you have door lock rods to work around you can slip some wire loom over them and bend the metal to make sure they are not binding, then mat up to but not touching the rods.

Then install one layer of mat over the whole inner door metal, overlapping the seams by 1/2", seal all air passages possible, cut the mat back around 1" from edge of door panel to allow proper fitment and cut approximately a 1" clearance around the door panel mounts.

Add a layer of 1/8" closed cell foam (Ensolite is best) to the top of the mat, cut around all mounting points. To make sure the door panel will fit back on properly; cut back about 1/4" from the edge of the panel.

Next tap on the door trim panel, any resonating areas can be matted on the back side. Usually, about 1/4 to 1/3 of the surface is enough. Install the panel and test the door; slam it a few times and listen for rattles, etc.

DOORS WITHOUT SPEAKERS:
Follow steps 4-7 above, matting the outside door skin is not required unless you just want
a more solid thump when shutting the door


Kick panels:
Remove the kick panel trim and look for hole under the pad there, usually opens up to the lower A pillars, a great place for road noise to enter the vehicle. Seal them up with some mat and a layer of foam. Add more foam to the back of the trim panel if you wish.


Rear Side Panels/Outer Metal Skin:
One layer of mat and a layer of foam to absorb ambient noise. The entire area does not have to be fully covered, great results will still be achieved by matting the less supported center areas of each location.


Rear hatch:
Same as rear doors without speakers.

Floor:
In most cars, very little factory deadening is present. Place one layer of RAAMmat most everywhere, full coverage not required as long as you cover the more centralized and less supported ones, you can skip the factory deadened areas to save on materials.

Tap on the floor and add a second and sometimes a third layer to the resonating areas only. Once an area is no longer resonates, there is little to gain by adding more mat.

Add a layer of Ensolite, best to cover all areas possible, especially the wheel wells and
inside the rear side panels. On flat and more resonance prone areas a second layer of foam can be added. When doing two layers you can add some strips of mat between the layers in key noise areas to absorb acoustical energy in those trouble spots.

Roof:
Not usually needed as it achieves the least beneficial results for a lot of effort but if going
all out, then most certainly do so. The best advice is to wait until the rest of the vehicle
is done, then take it for a drive, listen to your system, and decide if you want that last little bit of improvement. One layer of RAAMmat is the most that should be needed with the possibility of some patches in the middle of the least supported areas. Then cover it with a solid layer of closed cell foam.

Run any wiring you need to over the foam, tape it in place with some strips of duct tape, install the carpet and all trim, seats, etc, and enjoy the new quite and more comfortable ride
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like to deaden the roof myself, I feel it's definitely worth it. Also like to mention that www.secondskinaudio.com 's Spectrum Sludge is a great for deadening surfaces that are harder to deaden with mat. I plan on using a liquid deadener on the back of all my interior panels, as well as areas that the mat cannot be applied.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Additional tips by Rootboy from www.elitecaraudio.com

"Start with any easy - flat, large area like part of your trunk. Vacuum out any dirt and dust and then wipe the area with denatured alc. Cut off a piece about 8" long - I prefer a pair of heavy shears, but most people like a utility knife. With a little practice you will cut pieces a foot or more long.

Peel the release paper off the first inch or so and fold it back. Now you have a piece of mat with an inch of adhesive exposed and the rest still covered with the release paper. Ready, aim, fire. Line the piece up and press the exposed adhesive down on the surface. You piece of mat is now positioned where you want it and if you missed, you will still be able to get it off. Good spot? OK, start pulling the release paper down the length of the mat, pressing the exposed adhesive onto the surface as you go. Voila! First piece down. Do that a few hundred more times and you are done.

You want to use the largest piece you can for each application - but not too big. You will quickly learn what too big is, because in your impatience and growing confidence, you will finally get to the point where you exceed reality. You will lose control and get a bubble or a fold or something you didn't intend. No problem, take your knife and cut the bubble or fold out, press it down and all will be well. You want to have perfect contact between the mat and the surface you are attaching it to. Your utility knife and an X-Acto knife will be your friends.

While you don't NEED a heat gun or a roller, they do help. In my testing, there wasn't a single product that did not achieve better adhesion with some heat - but with RAAMmat you will be OK either way. I got a nice roller at Home Depot for wallpaper - rubber handle, plastic roller, $5. Really helps for pressing down on flat areas, plus it gives you something to do while you figure out what to do next.

Also, don't imagine, like I did, that you can do the whole car in a day. Imagine you can do it in 4 days. If you think you might need your car during that time or have to do something crazy like going to work, do it in pieces. Trunk one day, doors another, then the rest when your wife is visiting her mother in Ireland and you can take a few vacation days that you have been hiding - even then, she is going to come home and find your front seats in the living room, or was that just me

If you like doing crazy things, you'll love this. Even if you hate doing crazy things, you are going to love the results."



Rootboy also did a VERY comprehensive test between the different offerings available today. Read for yourself and see which product works best for you.

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Underdash Panels and Dashmats

For info on minimizing reflections there's two basic things that you can do that help alot.

1st. and the most easiest, although some may not like the appearance is to simply get a dashmat. Some like to take it a step further and add a layer of Ensolite foam underneath it to make a thicker pourous surface. By having this dashmat, you are minimizing one of the major areas in the car that creates unwanted soundwave reflections.

2nd. Underdash mats. Same idea, but in this case you are going to create a two step system and use it under the dash, above where yuor feet would be. This is kind of hard to explain so I'm gonna give you some links to read

http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimate...=004942#000031
Make sure to read Scott buwalda's post on the Subject.

This thread also has info, and pics on the subject.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ighlight=sound

These two things make a HUGE difference in the sound quality. You'll have to use less EQ'ing to get a flat frequency response.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have any ?'s feel free to post.
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Last edited by cam2Xrunner; 10-22-2005 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 10-13-2005, 02:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
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im too lazy to read it all
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Old 10-13-2005, 02:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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^ DO IT



You'll learn something
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Old 10-13-2005, 11:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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im intrigued by the idea of the under dash panels
shouldnt be too teribly hard to make with some cardboard, raam and some thermozite
just worried about looks on that aspect.
http://www.sounddomain.com/ride/228046/3

rest of the post is good stuff, read it on ECA. Good thing, added to the sticky?
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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^Don't use cardoboard. Use mesh wiring. Cardboard itself will cause reflections because it's a hard surface. Did you read the post's by Scott Buwalda, that's the info I'm trying to point out.
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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yea did read it, just trying to make sense of it

mesh wiring, bigger stuff, covered in some sort of really thick foam
thermozite is bigger then 1/8 but not up there with the stuff that was being talked about on ECA. You gonna try and get some of that.

Oh yea you going for a dash mat. I understand that they help out but i cant get over how ugly they are
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Old 10-14-2005, 02:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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if you have the space they would be great, but my drivers need way too much room that i cant really sacrifice... they sould good where they are at right now tho. plus my leg would be blocking a lot of the sound coming form the drivers side kick panel anyways. a friend had some in his truck and they sounded amazing. he went to USACi internations and placed (KC)
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Old 10-14-2005, 02:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq_camry
if you have the space they would be great, but my drivers need way too much room that i cant really sacrifice... they sould good where they are at right now tho. plus my leg would be blocking a lot of the sound coming form the drivers side kick panel anyways. a friend had some in his truck and they sounded amazing. he went to USACi internations and placed (KC)

What are you talking about? Kicks?

Did you post in the wrong thread by chance?
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
DOORS WITHOUT SPEAKERS:
Follow steps 4-7 above, matting the outside door skin is not required unless you just want
a more solid thump when shutting the door
So is that to say there is no positive to deadening doors w/o speakers (as if to absorb external vibrations and other road noises?) or was he just speaking along the lines of speaker resonance within the door itself?

Dammit Cam! Now you've got me wanting to strip down my car and redo all my sound deadening, and it took me weeks to complete as is! I really need to get a motorcycle...

I think I might shoot Rick an e-mail and get me some of that Ensolite, when I get a chance (and some cash flow), as well as some raammat. Now I seriously want to redo everything, especially after this and seeing how thorough Ant was in his deadening project. Guess I'll have to peel off the Sludge I have on my doors and stuff and start all over on my interior. I'd really like to make my whole car as quet as possible, as in the future I might like to take it cto competitions. Oh well...back to work for now...
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delay_FTB
So is that to say there is no positive to deadening doors w/o speakers (as if to absorb external vibrations and other road noises?) or was he just speaking along the lines of speaker resonance within the door itself?

Dammit Cam! Now you've got me wanting to strip down my car and redo all my sound deadening, and it took me weeks to complete as is! I really need to get a motorcycle...

I think I might shoot Rick an e-mail and get me some of that Ensolite, when I get a chance (and some cash flow), as well as some raammat. Now I seriously want to redo everything, especially after this and seeing how thorough Ant was in his deadening project. Guess I'll have to peel off the Sludge I have on my doors and stuff and start all over on my interior. I'd really like to make my whole car as quet as possible, as in the future I might like to take it cto competitions. Oh well...back to work for now...

I feel it's necessary. I mean if you've got subs, that outer door panel is gonna resonate. Also I feel the doors, especially when Ensolite foam is used is one of the major things you can do to block out road noise.

In the case where my truck has suicide access cab doors, deadening helps tremendously, even though I'm not going to have speakers in there. It just makes the whole truck feel more solid.

Oh and don't strip down your deadener, if you feel it's not enough, just add to it. In your case, maybe another layer of Sludge is in order, followed by a layer of Ensolite foam.
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah, I don't know about the stripping thing. I kinda jumped into it without really knowing what to do with it all.

What exactly is ensolite, and what does it do? How is it applied, where? etc... I hear its a "necessity" but don't know much about it. Any links? I have some RattlePad in my doors right now, is it similar to that?
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Old 10-14-2005, 01:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anshu
yea did read it, just trying to make sense of it

mesh wiring, bigger stuff, covered in some sort of really thick foam
thermozite is bigger then 1/8 but not up there with the stuff that was being talked about on ECA. You gonna try and get some of that.

Oh yea you going for a dash mat. I understand that they help out but i cant get over how ugly they are
I'll make a post later on with links on where to get the right materials for making the underdash panels.

I'll definitely be using a dashmat. I don't think they are that bad looking.
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Old 10-14-2005, 01:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delay_FTB
Yeah, I don't know about the stripping thing. I kinda jumped into it without really knowing what to do with it all.

What exactly is ensolite, and what does it do? How is it applied, where? etc... I hear its a "necessity" but don't know much about it. Any links? I have some RattlePad in my doors right now, is it similar to that?
Ensolite is a closed cell foam. Pretty much same thing as this.

http://www.secondskinaudio.com/produ...hp?productid=6

They just put that on sale too, not bad of pricing. That link explains pretty well what it does.
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Old 10-14-2005, 01:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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werd, gonna be a long night for you with the all the posts your gonna have to make
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Old 10-14-2005, 01:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cam2Xrunner
What are you talking about? Kicks?

Did you post in the wrong thread by chance?
oh, dash panels, nvm i misread
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