Help with Eclipse CD8053 Tuning and Pro-mode install/configuration

[Greg12a]

Hey guys, I need your professional help (Car Audio that is).

My current setup on my 4Runner (please excuse my goofs on terminology - am somewhat of a novice with just enough knowledge to be dangerous)
- Tuner: Eclipse CD8053 (8V - with built-in Cross-over control/no amplification)
- Front Speakers: MB Quart 1" Q-series Tweeters/5.25 Q-Series MidBass in the front doors (8 years old)
- Rear Speakers: MB Quart 5.25 Coaxials (8 years old)
- Subs: JL Audio 10 inch (2)
- Speaker Amp: A/D/S P640 (6 x 40 watts) - with high pass + bandpass + low-pass crossover controls
- Sub Amp: A/D/S P1400 (1 x 400 wattts) - with cross-over controls

Previously I had the Eclipse CD5303 tuner (for 7-8 years) and LOVED it (and the corresponding set-up). I finally decided to join the IPOD craze; needed a deck with aux input; so decided to go with the Eclipse CD8053.

Problems:
1) I had a local stereo shop install it and it sounds "terrible". They were unfamilar with the Eclipse 8053 and unfamilar with the A/D/S flexibility. I wanted them to install the 8053 in pro-mode, but they weren't familar with this configuration. I realize the "terrible" statement all has to do with the right install and right tuning/settings (since this a GREAT deck).
2) My MB Quart 25.01 Q Tweeters are "tired" (8 years old) and need replacing
3) Would like to run the CD8053 in Pro-mode, but current setup won't necessarily work (since the 8053 front-"outs" go to the tweets and mids; rear-outs to the rear coaxials; and sub-out to the subwoofer). My understanding is that the front-outs need to go to the tweeters; rear-outs to the mids(potentially both front mids and rear-mids/co-axs); and sub-outs to the subwoofer. Since the front-outs are configured for both the tweets and the front-mids, I can't independently control the high pass and band-pass (since the rear-outs are needed for the rear co-axs). (Pheww, hope that made sense)

Goal: To go completely active - in that the Eclipse CD8053 controls all crossover points for the front tweets; front mids (bandpass); rear speakers; and rear sub. I also want to continue using the subwoofer fade control on the tuner. I realize the A/D/S amps offer tons of flexibility - but would like to have all this configured within the Eclipse deck (fully active through tuner - no external crossovers or amplifier crossovers).

Questions:
1) I definitely need to replace the 1" tweeters (and midbass)- Should I go with the MB Quart QSD216's or the PCE216's (with the expectation to sell the included x-over)?
2) What should I go with in the back (5.25 midbass or 5.25 co-ax)?
- If I go with tweeters/mid in the front and co-ax in the rear, how would I wire this out of the 8053 in order to control the pro-mode settings? Would I have the 8053 front outs go to the tweeters and then the mids and rear co-axials as rear-outs configured in band-pass mode - via the 8053?

- If I go with tweeters/mid in the front and mids in the rear, how would I wire this out of the 8053 in order to control the pro-mode settings?

3) Related to #2, how should I wire up the Eclipse 8053 with the speakers - in order to work in PRO-MODE?

4) Based on the 8053 Pro-mode speaker set-up; what cross-over settings would you recommend for 1) front tweets 2) mids 3) subwoofer? What slope settings for those three?

5) Any other pro-mode advice or recommendations (or better yet, any existing write-ups).

I'm gonna take all advice/recommendations; buy the necessary speakers; and then take it to a reputable installer here in Seattle - where we can configure pro-mode/etc (do it the right way).

Sorry for the long-winded post - but I definitely appreciate any advice/suggestions/comments you could provide. Feel free to let me know if other approaches would make more sense. Thanks guys!

[Kevin7909]

Questions:
1) I definitely need to replace the 1" tweeters (and midbass)- Should I go with the MB Quart QSD216's or the PCE216's (with the expectation to sell the included x-over)?


given that choice i would go with QSD216. put tweeters in the a-pillars facing each other about 4" off the dash up the pillar.




2) What should I go with in the back (5.25 midbass or 5.25 co-ax)?
- If I go with tweeters/mid in the front and co-ax in the rear, how would I wire this out of the 8053 in order to control the pro-mode settings? Would I have the 8053 front outs go to the tweeters and then the mids and rear co-axials as rear-outs configured in band-pass mode - via the 8053?

- If I go with tweeters/mid in the front and mids in the rear, how would I wire this out of the 8053 in order to control the pro-mode settings?

i say forget about the rear fill altogether and spend the money to purchase a qsd 4" set and install em in the kickspanels.

3) Related to #2, how should I wire up the Eclipse 8053 with the speakers - in order to work in PRO-MODE?

front to tweeter input on amp

rear to midbass input on amp

sub to sub input on amp

i *think* that unit has a third output. this will be used for your mids in the kicks. i worked on a system with this headunit but forgot what the features are.

4) Based on the 8053 Pro-mode speaker set-up; what cross-over settings would you recommend for 1) front tweets 2) mids 3) subwoofer? What slope settings for those three?

i would start at (assuming you using tweeters/mids/midbass/subwoofer):

tweeter: 4khz

mid: hi-pass= 280hz lo-pass=4khz

midbass: hi-pass=50hz lo-pass=220hz

subwoofer: lo-pass= 45hz

all at max slope on eclipse headunit. the eclipse might not have the exact settings listed above so just set the speakers to the closest settings above.

5) Any other pro-mode advice or recommendations (or better yet, any existing write-ups).

read the manual a couple of times and play with the system. when your comfortable with the controls then find me and i will help you to understand crossovers/phase/time alignment/equalizers, in that order. that is the order in which you want to tune as well.

Kevin

[sq_camry]

just so you know, the eq doesnt apply to the sub, the only downside to pro mode on this model is that you cannot adj the subwoofer indep. on the newer 05 models, i believe you can tho.

[cam2Xrunner]

Welcome to TN Greg, and thanks Kevin for your help.

Greg, what exactly do you mean by your tweeters are tired? Do they have buzzing or distortion of some kind?

If not, I'd just try them out, then maybe buy the 6.5" QSD add on midbass kit. Or just look for a used set of QSD mids.

If they are in fact broken, then the PSD and PCE Component set's use the same tweeter as the QSD. These tweeters are awesome I'm sure you know, and have been in MANY SQ Comp winning installs. Check ebay for PSD216 and PCE216, I know there's a few inexspensive option out there, and those mids aren't bad either.

I'm going to be using the same tweeters you have with Phaze Audio/PPI Tubedriver mids. From what I've read, they are very nice, and can play easily up to and past 3.5KHZ. You can pick these up off ebay(seller=RobotUndergorund) for about 80 bucks. I'll let you know how they sound tomorrow with the QTC25 Mids.

I'm going to see how high these mids will play cleanly, then cross them over around there. Then have the tweeters pick up where they left off. But my starting points will be.

Tweeter HPF ON at 3.5KHZ
Mid HPF On at 60HZ
Mid LPF On at 3.5Khz

Then play with it from there. Like Kevin said, use the highest slope possible.

I'll be able to give more helpful info tomorrow after I actually play with it

Greg, would you happen to have the actual owners manual on PDF by chance?

[cam2Xrunner]

Originally Posted by sq_camry

just so you know, the eq doesnt apply to the sub, the only downside to pro mode on this model is that you cannot adj the subwoofer indep. on the newer 05 models, i believe you can tho.

Yeah that kind of sucks.

I think I've read that you can adjust the subwoofer level on regular mode, then switch to Pro mode, and the sub setting is the same. Is this how it works?

Would you happen to have the Owners manual in PDF form by chance?

[Greg12a]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input.

1) Tweeters are tired: I've noticed periodic "cracking" coming from the right tweeter (at high volume) - and two installers have noticed this cracking sound. The tweets also lack the highs from back in the day. I'll have to experiment to see if they really need replacing or not - and go from there.

2) So for Pro-mode to work, I'd have to go with either a mid-bass in the rear or a coaxial in the rear only playing in band-pass mode - since I'd have to use the 2nd pre-out from the Eclipse to drive both the front door mids and the rear-door mids (1st output tweets; 2nd output mids; 3rd output subs). That being said, it doesn't make sense to go band-pass with a coaxial, so I'll go with the 5.25 midbasses in the rear. I'm just worried about controlling the front and rear midbasses through the Eclipse deck - since the cross-overs; timing alignment; PEQ; etc will be linked together - and will lose out on the front / rear midpass independent controls.

3) You're right about the subwoofer control in pro-mode...and you're also right that switching to "normal mode" will allow you to fine-tune the subwoofer control - but then you need to toggle back and forth between modes. Not ideal, but it works. If you are "digitally" (deck) active and without crossovers, then you must be careful to mute volume while you toggle between modes - or the tweeters could get damaged (I'm sure filters/capacitors will be used in-line though). One other thing to keep in mind is that alot of the "normal" mode settings (like fadar/treble/bass/etc) will also carry over to pro-mode (and vice versa) - something to keep in mind as you're adjusting.

4) I've done some looking and can't find a pdf version of the CD8053 manual. I think I might have one at home on my other computer so let me look this afternoon.

Thanks again!

[cam2Xrunner]

Originally Posted by Greg12a

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input.

1) Tweeters are tired: I've noticed periodic "cracking" coming from the right tweeter (at high volume) - and two installers have noticed this cracking sound. The tweets also lack the highs from back in the day. I'll have to experiment to see if they really need replacing or not - and go from there.

In that case, I'd get a set of PSD216's or PCE216's off ebay, probably shouldn't be more than 200 bucks or so. Has the same QSD Tweet that is awesome. And the 6.5" mid aint that bad.

2) So for Pro-mode to work, I'd have to go with either a mid-bass in the rear or a coaxial in the rear only playing in band-pass mode - since I'd have to use the 2nd pre-out from the Eclipse to drive both the front door mids and the rear-door mids (1st output tweets; 2nd output mids; 3rd output subs). That being said, it doesn't make sense to go band-pass with a coaxial, so I'll go with the 5.25 midbasses in the rear. I'm just worried about controlling the front and rear midbasses through the Eclipse deck - since the cross-overs; timing alignment; PEQ; etc will be linked together - and will lose out on the front / rear midpass independent controls.

This is why you'd just want to ditch rear fill all together. Besides, it pulls back the soundstage anyways that you work so hard to get on your hood.

3) You're right about the subwoofer control in pro-mode...and you're also right that switching to "normal mode" will allow you to fine-tune the subwoofer control - but then you need to toggle back and forth between modes. Not ideal, but it works. If you are "digitally" (deck) active and without crossovers, then you must be careful to mute volume while you toggle between modes - or the tweeters could get damaged (I'm sure filters/capacitors will be used in-line though). One other thing to keep in mind is that alot of the "normal" mode settings (like fadar/treble/bass/etc) will also carry over to pro-mode (and vice versa) - something to keep in mind as you're adjusting.

Thanks or the tips, I told you that you'd probably teach me something too

4) I've done some looking and can't find a pdf version of the CD8053 manual. I think I might have one at home on my other computer so let me look this afternoon.

Thanks again!

Thank You!

[sq_camry]

Originally Posted by cam2Xrunner

Yeah that kind of sucks.

I think I've read that you can adjust the subwoofer level on regular mode, then switch to Pro mode, and the sub setting is the same. Is this how it works?

Would you happen to have the Owners manual in PDF form by chance?

what page(s) do you need, pm me and ill try and scan them later in the night.

[Greg12a]

So here's an interesting question/tangent: When did MBQuart move their manufacturing facilities overseas (Far-East)? Just spoke to a local shop/installer and he strongly recommended finding speakers that were actually made in Germany. He's seen a drop in quality and craftsmanship in the "latest" stuff.

I'm in the market for either a QSD 216 or a PCE 216 Component set. Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we know what years/models to avoid or is this really a valid concern?

Thoughts?

[sq_camry]

how do those tweeters sound? my friend had mb quart rsd 213 comps, and he said they sounded pretty good...

[cam2Xrunner]

Originally Posted by sq_camry

what page(s) do you need, pm me and ill try and scan them later in the night.

Thanks for the offer. Um, anything you think that might help. I have never even played with one of these things, so when I turn mine on, I'm gonna be like a little kid lost in the mall

Definitely Pro Mode stuffs, um, EQ stuff, Crosover slopes, Time Alignment, Installation, etc.


I appreciate it man!

[sq_camry]

Originally Posted by cam2Xrunner

Thanks for the offer. Um, anything you think that might help. I have never even played with one of these things, so when I turn mine on, I'm gonna be like a little kid lost in the mall

Definitely Pro Mode stuffs, um, EQ stuff, Crosover slopes, Time Alignment, Installation, etc.


I appreciate it man!

just so you know, the eq is useless for fine tuning, i believe it is mono...

but yea, ill get around to getting that stuff scanned, its been a really busy week, 2 tests one day, one more the next, another and a paper the next... im running on fumes right now.