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Old 12-13-2005, 02:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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No rear speakers?!?!!?!!!

This was my response to another thread where someone asked why I always say don't waste your money on rear speakers and instead use it on better front speakers(and an amp)

I'm pasting it here, because I know someone's gonna ask why I don't like to use rear speakers, and now, I can just link them to this thread


Alot of people don't understand at first.

I will say that rear speakers are definitely a good thing when setting up a DVD video system and they have some sort of 5.1 or 4.1 surround sound processor.

But for everyone else that is setting up their system for music. Rear speakers actually do more bad then they do good if they have already setup the front speaker system properly.

Music is recorded in left to right Stereo with emphasis on frontal staging and imaging. Sometimes, very rarely, music is recorded in 5.1 surround for DVD Audio. Most of us don't have DVD Audio capabilities in our car(and if you do, you SHOULD have rear speakers)

So for this stereo recorded music you should have a stereo speaker system.

The goal in a well designed system for best sound quality is to have the proper Imaging and good stage depth.

Imaging- Imaging has to do with left to right and center sound. The "Image" of where the music is coming from can vary depending on where the artist wants. One really good song for an example of left to right imaging is Pink Floyd's "Money" Where you can clearly hear the "chaching" and the cash register's sound move from left to right. Then you also have a center image. Most vocals are supposed to be centered coming from right in the middle of the dash, under the rear view mirror.

If you've ever listened to Nora Jones, the recording has a very prominant center image.

Rear speakers can throw off this imaging BIG TIME,

Do this. Fade your speakers all the way to the rear and have the left to right balance at 0.

You will notice that you can clearly hear the left rear speaker more than the right rear speaker. Well when you have your front speakers faded in, that left rear speaker is pulling your imaging to the left. Not good.

This brings me to staging and stage depth.

When you go to a concert or even your home stereo and you have your music playing. Where is the sound coming from?

The front.

We want to reproduce this effect in our car. By having rear speaker's it make's it sound like it's coming from the center of the car, or in your head. This is where most people can't grasp the concept that this is NOT what you want.

What you want is it to sound like the band is playing on your hood(or at least your dash). The hood being the "Stage"

So ditch the rear speakers and you've now just fixed your problem of your left rear speaker pulling your image to the left, and you've fixed the problem of your rear speakers pulling your stage back into the middle of the car.





BTW, this might not apply to someone using coaxials and deck power. In that case, it is probably better to use rear speakers because that will help with loudness because a set of front coaxials being powered off a deck might not be loud enough for most. And chances are they are not too concerned about Imaging and Stage Depth.


If you are going to attempt to have a good system using amps and component speakers(instead of coaxials) then the above post applies.

Make sure to amp thos front components, deaden the front doors at the least(I rec. www.raamaudio.com ) and use MDF wood baffles to mount your speakers to the doors.
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Old 12-13-2005, 03:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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very good read thats why im gonna go active myself. (still trying to find a good setup)
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Old 12-13-2005, 03:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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very nice that helps out alot on clearing up the rear fill issue
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quick question: i got rear fill LONG before I knew better, and when I fade my music all the way to the back, I hear nothing. Why??

My rear speakers work just fine when the fade is on 0, why does it mess up like that?
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidClen
Quick question: i got rear fill LONG before I knew better, and when I fade my music all the way to the back, I hear nothing. Why??

My rear speakers work just fine when the fade is on 0, why does it mess up like that?
Are you running them off an amp or the headunit? If you're running them off an amp, you probably have the RCA's wired wrong.
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Old 12-13-2005, 06:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Very good write up. I used it to shut up a guy in my class very nicely. He has two 15's, stock front speakers and Xlod 6X9's in the back on an amp and he thinks it sounds "better then anything"

Do you that putting speakers in kick pods gives the best imaging? I'm just waiting for my kick pods to arrive in the mail. So I'm hoping that having a component set down there will help straighten up my imaging. I got it pretty close with just my homemade door pods. (Both sets will be used)

Would running a set of 6.75" mid bass in the rear dash will kill my imaging?
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cam2Xrunner
Are you running them off an amp or the headunit? If you're running them off an amp, you probably have the RCA's wired wrong.
amp. they were "professionally" installed by a car audio shop.
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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ive done both setups on my car and i still like how it sounds with the rear. i prefer surround sound
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You forgot to mention subwoofers in sedans. The air pressure distorts the rear speakers right?
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowCarTercel
Would running a set of 6.75" mid bass in the rear dash will kill my imaging?
No.

But it's be pointless.

You're not going to hear midbass from your rear deck of all places and it will be drowned out by your sub(s).
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit
ive done both setups on my car and i still like how it sounds with the rear. i prefer surround sound
Too bad it's not "surround" sound.

Just point sources that distort your imaging. Remember, you're only hearing a left and right signal -- regardless of fader.
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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^still sounds better imo but that's just me i guess
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeABao
No.

But it's be pointless.

You're not going to hear midbass from your rear deck of all places and it will be drowned out by your sub(s).
Hmm, guess not if they are going to be bridged with a set the exact same that's in the doors already. Don't think I could fit two 6.75 speakers in my front doors, let down.
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit
ive done both setups on my car and i still like how it sounds with the rear. i prefer surround sound
Do you have a Surround sound processor? You're not really listening to "Surround" without one, you're just hearing 2.1 stereo with speakers behind you(Basically deleting your staging)

I think the thing is you are used to factory systems that incorporate rear fill, and you haven't had a chance to listen to a well executed SQ install(no offense)

I'm sure your install has the potential to sound better with just front speakers and no rear speakers, but it depends on install, quality of your front speakers, tuning, power, speaker placement, crossover selection. And lastly, wiring active can make a big difference too.


But if you like rear speakers, then that's what's inportant, that you like it.

The fact is though that for a proper SQ install with good imaging and good stage depth and height, running rear speakers is going to make that much harder to obtain.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Cam, you read my last post
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