so for our gen 5/5.5 Cams, therz speakers/tweeters located in the dash. i'm looking to get a decent 6.5" component set soon. should i just put the new tweets in the existing dash speaker location? or would it be better sound to install them near or on the side pillars?
The path length difference between the mids is going to be the hardest part to overcome in any car however it is most crucial in getting a good stage with good imaging. Are you going to put the mids in the stock door location? If so, you will probably need to bi-amp the components and use time delay (it will only be good from one seat). As for the tweets, some work better on-axis and some work better off axis. My suggestion would be to install the mids, put extra long wires on the tweets and try them in different locations to see what sounds best to you. Hopefully this made sense and if you want me to get into more detail just let me know
yeah i wanted to do this too, add some hot components up front. But I have no clue what you're talking about "need to bi-amp the components and use time delay ", or "some work better on-axis and some work better off axis"??? please expain.
install the tweeter in the kick panels. This way the difference between the two distances arent as big as if you were to install them up top. The only problem that can occur is stage height, but through angling, you can make it high and image very well.
If you want to place them up high, have them facing straight across each other. Doing that have given many people great imaging too.
Also if you really keen, use something like Blu-Tac to install your tweeters. this way you can keep on changing the angle/tweeter placement until you find the sweet spot in the car and then permanently mount them there.
yeah i wanted to do this too, add some hot components up front. But I have no clue what you're talking about "need to bi-amp the components and use time delay ", or "some work better on-axis and some work better off axis"??? please expain.
I'll see if I can explain a little more without getting too confusing! Generally for a 2-way set you would want to have the mid/tweeter as close to each other as possible and an equal distance from your ears for the best imaging. This is pretty difficult to accomplish in a car so you have to get creative if you really want a good stage/imaging from at least one seat (preferably the drivers )
We'll start with bi-amping. Most packaged component sets come with a passive crossover to "seperate the frequencies" and send them to the appropriate speaker. The main benefit is you only need 2 channels of amplification so it's easier to install. On the other hand passives only allow limited control of each speaker so if the mid and tweeter are mounted far apart you can end up with 2 different point sources instead of a focused image. Bi-amping means you eliminate the passive crossover and use a seperate channel of amplification for each speaker. This allows more control over each speaker but also requires more amplifier channels (4 channels as opposed to 2), a bandpass filter for the mids and a bit more experience to set up properly.
Next we'll go to the pathlength difference (PLD)= measure the distance of the left side speaker to your left ear and measure the distance of the right side speaker to your right ear. Subtract the shorter from the longer and this is your path length difference. In the frequency range where your lower midrange/midbass plays, the shorter the PLD the more beneficial for staging/imaging. Unfortunately unless you drive a McLaren you are always going to be closer to one of the door mounted speakers so in order to minimize the difference a lot of guys use kickpanels including myself. If you are unable to do kickpanels (or other locations to decrease the PLD) and/or the mid tweet are seperated, another way to overcome this difference is to use time delay (sometimes referred to as "time alignment") so the sound waves arrive at the same time. The problem with this is that the opposite side of the car won't sound as good.
At frequencies above 2000hz (where the tweeter generally plays) location, aiming and amplitude are more important. This is where "on axis" (pointing towards the listener) and "off axis" (pointing away from the listener) come in. Depending on the tweeter, some may work well facing each other as mentioned (off axis) and some may not (this is where the extra long wires and experimenting come in ).
My current system images great from the drivers side with kickpanel locations for the mid/tweeter and images half decent from the passenger side. My new competition system is being designed to image great from both seats. In order to hopefully accomplish this I will have midbass drivers mounted either in the firewall, under the dash or close to the firewall in the floor to get the PLD to a bare minimum in the most critical range of lower midrange/midbass. Next it will have a midrange and tweeter as far forward in the kickpanels (aimed properly of course). I may end up using a set of horns but that opens a whole new can of worms! There is a whole lot more to this that includes phase issues/reflections/tuning etc but it can get a bit confusing so I'll stop here.
I know what I am doing is not feasible nor desirable for most daily drivers so if I was limited to a 2-way set with door mounted mid locations and wanted good imaging for the drivers side I would bi-amp them, experiment with the tweeter location/aiming to get the best possible height/width and time delay from there.
edit: Almost forgot, I once listened to a car with the mid in the bottom front of the door and the tweeter right above it using passive crossovers. It was time delayed and actually staged/imaged pretty well from the drivers side so that may be an option if you don't want to bi-amp.
A couple of things to note; I can't hear what you can hear and you can't hear what i can so what sounds good to me may not sound good to you! Also, different speakers/locations react differently from one car to the next. The main thing to remember is experiment as much as possible and do what sounds best to you!
wo...thanks for all the great info guys....but a little too much for my head!
Bi-amping - so it you bi-amp, you need to use a 4 channel amp, and you throw out the crossover that comes with the speakers? is time-delay controlled by an amp?
i'm not gonna use any special kickpanels - way too much work and $$ for me, I just want some good sound not competition level stuff. i'm gonna put the 6 1/2 speakers in the stock door location I guess with some MDF. For the tweets it seems like I have these options to put em: 1) new hole in door, 2) mirror cover, 3) up high in the side bars = "a-pillars"?, or 4) last but not least - where the existing crappy tweets are in the dash! Based on your pathlength difference (PLD) concept, the in-dash option may work best....gonna have to play around with em. Thanks.
wo...thanks for all the great info guys....but a little too much for my head!
Bi-amping - so it you bi-amp, you need to use a 4 channel amp, and you throw out the crossover that comes with the speakers? is time-delay controlled by an amp?
i'm not gonna use any special kickpanels - way too much work and $$ for me, I just want some good sound not competition level stuff. i'm gonna put the 6 1/2 speakers in the stock door location I guess with some MDF. For the tweets it seems like I have these options to put em: 1) new hole in door, 2) mirror cover, 3) up high in the side bars = "a-pillars"?, or 4) last but not least - where the existing crappy tweets are in the dash! Based on your pathlength difference (PLD) concept, the in-dash option may work best....gonna have to play around with em. Thanks.
I tried to keep it simple!
For bi-amping you will need a 4 channel amp or a pair of 2 channel amps and you do not need the passives. Time delay is available in some amps and external processors however IMO the easiest way to bi-amp/time delay is to get a headunit with a "pro-mode" or something similar. These type of headunits will have the necessary bandpass crossover and time alignment as well as a small EQ that will be helpful.
Location, aiming and amplitude are most important for the tweeters. We also have a 2005 Camry and the stock location is on top of the dash firing at the windshield. This is probably the worst location and takes a lot of experience to combat the anomolies caused by reflections from the windshield and top of the dash. Almost forgot, Dashmats are a good way to help reduce reflections and protect your dash at the same time .
Mr. Marv, u r the audio guru. i bow down. well, since ur a fellow Gen 5'er, have u made custom baffles for the front door speakers? i wanna put a 6.5" there, or possibly a 6X9 for more bass. let me know if u sell stuff online. peace out!
Mr. Marv, u r the audio guru. i bow down. well, since ur a fellow Gen 5'er, have u made custom baffles for the front door speakers? i wanna put a 6.5" there, or possibly a 6X9 for more bass. let me know if u sell stuff online. peace out!
No guru here, just a car audio fanatic that spends WAY too much time with this stuff!
I do have the templates for the baffles. You can drop me an email or call me at 1-831-383-0308
Hey Marv, where might you suggest putting the tweets on a two way set in my Gen 4 (99) Cam? I was thinking of just swapping the current locations (lower door for the mid and sial panel for the tweet) with a new two way set I have. I'm gonna run passive for now since I don't feel like buying a new amp (nor do I have "teh skillz") for an active setup yet.
Also, can you run the "pro mode" on the P880 with a two way set? I thought it was only for three way, but I could be mistaken.
And one more question, can the HU be flush mounted in my Cam? Honestly, I've never installed a HU before, so this will be my first attempt, and I want it to go well. I know I told you I would have it installed a week or two ago, but I've been slacking and am waiting to move to the new place so I can have a garage to work in!
Sorry for hijacking he thread...
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Originally Posted by cam2Xrunner
With a bangin sound system, Carputer with online connection, 1+ lateral G's, and a Twizler Dispenser. That's pimp right there.
Hey Marv, where might you suggest putting the tweets on a two way set in my Gen 4 (99) Cam? I was thinking of just swapping the current locations (lower door for the mid and sial panel for the tweet) with a new two way set I have. I'm gonna run passive for now since I don't feel like buying a new amp (nor do I have "teh skillz") for an active setup yet.
Also, can you run the "pro mode" on the P880 with a two way set? I thought it was only for three way, but I could be mistaken.
And one more question, can the HU be flush mounted in my Cam? Honestly, I've never installed a HU before, so this will be my first attempt, and I want it to go well. I know I told you I would have it installed a week or two ago, but I've been slacking and am waiting to move to the new place so I can have a garage to work in!
Sorry for hijacking he thread...
Since you are using the passives I would try to keep the tweeter as close to the mid as possible. On the other hand I have seen guys make things work that would have you scratching your head as to how it was possible so get those long wires out and do some experimenting! For a 2-way set up on the 880prs you can use the mid output in Pro Mode for the fronts and set the mid low pass filter to "pass". I have never installed in a 99 camry (that I can remember) so I'm not sure how difficult it would be to flush mount the headunit.
Since you are using the passives I would try to keep the tweeter as close to the mid as possible. On the other hand I have seen guys make things work that would have you scratching your head as to how it was possible so get those long wires out and do some experimenting! For a 2-way set up on the 880prs you can use the mid output in Pro Mode for the fronts and set the mid low pass filter to "pass". I have never installed in a 99 camry (that I can remember) so I'm not sure how difficult it would be to flush mount the headunit.
I thought your wife had a 99? You mean to tell me you didn't hook it up with a stereo? LOL!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cam2Xrunner
With a bangin sound system, Carputer with online connection, 1+ lateral G's, and a Twizler Dispenser. That's pimp right there.
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tweeter placement - "imaging"
Generally for a 2-way set you would want to have the mid/tweeter as close to each other as possible and an equal distance from your ears for the best imaging. This is pretty difficult to accomplish in a car so you have to get creative if you really want a good stage/imaging from at least one seat (preferably the drivers 
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