front speaker on their way out

[CamryOwner98]

Hi,

I need some suggestions from you guys.

My 98 Camry's front speakers are about to die and I'll need some replacements real soon.
I need some suggestions for good speakers, but I don't have any plans to add an amp. I don't want to screw up the rear stock speakers as well as the front tweeters because I tried a pair of 200W pioneers and it messed up the sound (guess the 200W pioneers took all the power leaving the other speakers with nothing).

Are there any suggestions for front speakers that will work well with a stock camry setup?

[audionut71]

Quote:
I need some suggestions for good speakers, but I don't have any plans to add an amp. I don't want to screw up the rear stock speakers as well as the front tweeters because I tried a pair of 200W pioneers and it messed up the sound (guess the 200W pioneers took all the power leaving the other speakers with nothing).

Just to clarify, does this mean that you put in a set of pioneer 6.5" door speakers and they are now going out?

About the second part... the power rating on the speakers has nothing to do with how much "power" that they draw from the radio. The impedance (measured in Ohms) dictates how much current the speakers will demand from your radio. Assuming that the Pioneers are 4 Ohm (almost every car audio speaker is) and your stock speakers were 4 ohm (they are in my '99 LE) they draw the exact same amount of current (power) from the radio. Now different speakers can have the same impedance but different efficiencies which means that both are 4 Ohm speakers but speaker A is louder than speaker B at the same volume level. This is due to differences in the drivers themselves (a heavier cone is harder to move and so is less efficient).
You can all but ignore power ratings on coaxial speakers under $200. All are made with (roughly) the same size voice coil and very simple crossovers, it seems that some manufacturers try to appeal to less educated consumers by putting huge power handleing numbers on the box. Look for speakers that have light cones and nice capacitors. If the manufacturer is willing to spend extra on nice caps, chances are the speaker is well built. I just put some Memphis power reference speakers in the wife's car and they are efficient (she's driving them off her radio also) and well built and not expensive ($75 i think). Or you could look around for a 4 ohm midbass since you already have the tweeter. Check Madisound.com they have some nice Peerless drivers that are just what you need.
Hope that helps.

[CamryOwner98]

Nah, I returned the pioneers. It's my stock ones that are going out.

Thanks for the info. So from what you are saying, the pioneers I tried were efficient and my stocks were not very efficient because what it's made from makes it heavier and harder to move?

Then if I buy higher quality ones, won't that make the volume difference worse? I also found these on Best Buy: http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/prodde...8&catid=20114#

Those JBL's look really similar to the stock speakers, think those will not overpower the stock speakers? Thanks for the link too, I've never heard of any of the manufacturers lol, I'm so out of the loop with car speakers. All I know are those generic brands. My knowledge of speakers really only extend to connecting them on my car

[audionut71]

If you hooked up the Pioneers and they were louder than the stockers at the same volume level, then they were more efficient. If they had to be turned up higher to get to the same volume level they were less efficient. Usually stock speakers are very efficient and the aftermarket ones are not as efficient, thats why many require an amp to get loud enough.

The JBL's should be decent, although I don't understand why they say the impedance is 2 ohms but the impedance rating is 4 ohm. I'm guessing its a misprint. (By the way the sensitivity rating gives you an idea about the efficiency - the higher the # the more efficient)

Most of the speakers at Madisound are High End home speaker manufacturers, alot of folks would not have heard of them. I pointed it out because you can buy the midbass only- because if you put in a coax (woofer and tweeter together like the JBL) you will have twice as many tweeters up front. This WILL effect the sound.
Check this out, it is a affordable 6.5 inch woofer that you could replace your stock spkr with and keep the tweet up top, and peerless is known for making world class midbass speakers.

[CamryOwner98]

wow, thanks for that awesome recommendation. I really will consider this. I just wish I could test out the sound before I get them though. That's the thing with speakers. At least I could test it in store and buy the JBL's and test them on my car. If I don't like it, I can still return it.

I checked my front speakers today (opened up my door to take a look). It says that my front speakers are 2 ohm 20Watts made by Harman-Motive. It's strange, I thought we'd have the same speakers, since my Camry is only a year older (98 LE).

So does that fact that my speakers are 2ohm make it weaker than a 4 ohm since it demands less current? Is it also bad to use 4 ohm speakers with a 2ohm setup? I read somewhere it will ruin the speakers.

[audionut71]

Quote:
"I checked my front speakers today (opened up my door to take a look). It says that my front speakers are 2 ohm 20Watts made by Harman-Motive. It's strange, I thought we'd have the same speakers, since my Camry is only a year older (98 LE)."

That is strange, take a picture of them. Harman is the parent company of JBL and Infinity and makes alot of OEM speakers, but my old mids had no name on them - hmmmm
Wait- do you have the JBL Premium Stereo? Betcha do, I don't have stock tweeters in mine so that is the difference. The JBL Premium package has an outboard amp (don't ask me where) and upgraded speakers.

Quote:
"So does that fact that my speakers are 2ohm make it weaker than a 4 ohm since it demands less current? Is it also bad to use 4 ohm speakers with a 2ohm setup? I read somewhere it will ruin the speakers."

Actually 2 ohms is a lower impedance and will reqire MORE current from the radio, and if you replace them with a 4 ohm speaker the system will be quieter (but it is easier on your radio).
As for replacing them w/ 2 ohm speakers - Good Luck. The only ones that I remember seeing were the Exact series by Soundstream and that was proly 7 years ago. I'll bet you could ebay them tho.

[CamryOwner98]

Hmm... so it looks like my only option is 4 ohm speakers. It's good to hear that JBL is part of Harman! So I can expect similar quality from them.

Here's a pic of the front speaker's specs:



So you are saying 4 ohm speakers will make my whole system quieter? Or just the aftermarket speakers?

[audionut71]

So you are saying 4 ohm speakers will make my whole system quieter? Or just the aftermarket speakers?

Any speaker that was 2 ohm and is now 4 ohm will be approximately 1/2 as loud. So if you replaced all of the speakers w/ 4 ohmers and turned the deck up to your normal listening level the entire system would be 1/2 as loud. If you are only replacing the door speakers (and adding a tweeter that was not there originally) then only the midbass sounds up front will be quieter (and the tweeter section will prob be louder).

[Corollacrazy42]

^^ I dont kwo if you know what your talking about.. just because the speaker is of different ohm independence does not make it "quieter."

Also you can get Image Dynamics CX62 speakers as well if you still wanna keep to a 2ohm load. There are also other speakers that still have 2 ohm resistances but i cant think of any off the top of my head. Those Images would be really really nice though but are a bit pricy as far as I remember. I think someone is selling some for around $100 right now on an audio forum I'm part of.

Regardless those Peerless would be a really nice midbass speaker to try.. and they arent to expensive either.

[CamryOwner98]

I found some 2ohm JBL's at BestBuy (again). Looks not bad. I know it's not midbass only, but I can test it out. So I'll give it a try.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/prodde...5&catid=20114#

Thanks for the comments! I learned a lot.

[Corollacrazy42]

Those should work fine. It's not going to sound terrible if you have two tweeters.

[PhatRoyale]

Powered properly, those will definitely yield an improvement in sound quality over the stock speakers.

[audionut71]

^^ I dont kwo if you know what your talking about.. just because the speaker is of different ohm independence does not make it "quieter."

OK smarty pants, do a little reading on Ohms law.
E=IxR Volts= current x resistance
P=IxE Watts=current x voltage
An amp (or radio) is putting out some amount of voltage, lets say 8 volts, into an impedance of 4 ohms...
8(E)=?(I)x4(R)
I=2 amps of current then...
Watts=2(I)x8(E)
watts= 16

Now the same amp and a 2ohm spkr
8(E)=?(I)x2(R)
I= 4 amps of current
Watts=4(i)x8(E)
watts =32

so twice the power into the speaker with the lower impedance (assuming the volume level on the system is the same) This is why most 2 channel amps put out twice as much power into a 2 ohm load as they do into a 4 ohm load.

Also I forgot about the Images... too bad they are out of business. If you can find a pair of these, grab them they are DAMN GOOD.

[Corollacrazy42]

Wasnt implying that I was a smarty pants...

and yes I know all about the OHM Laws. But thanks for sharing..

That still doesnt prove anything other then more power... in which case power does not always mean louder... and you should know that.

If that were the case anyway.. why would companies all design their speakers with 4ohm independences if the power is much more achievable through 2ohm speakers. According to Image Dynamics site, they list that the 2ohm version midbass need 150w, and the 4ohms need 75w...so explain that..

If thats the case, it takes more power to run a 2ohm speaker then a 4ohm.. making it the worse choice in most circumstances.

Anyways, I'm not trying to battle you about it. I kinda came off sounding like that, and obviously you know your stuff so I appologize for that.

Many people that are into car audio get HT speakers which usually run at 8 ohms and take a hell of alot less power and use it more efficiently then lower independence speakers.

[audionut71]

That still doesnt prove anything other then more power... in which case power does not always mean louder... and you should know that.

For that not to be the case the difference in reference efficency would have to be more than 3 Db and if we are still talking about 6.5" door speakers that would be pretty rare (but it is possible).

If that were the case anyway.. why would companies all design their speakers with 4ohm independences if the power is much more achievable through 2ohm speakers. According to Image Dynamics site, they list that the 2ohm version midbass need 150w, and the 4ohms need 75w...so explain that..

The OEM's design their speaker to work for the maximum # of consumers, unless they are going after a niche market (like ID and Soundstream). The VAST majority of consumers run their stock radio or an aftermarket radio, both of which can not handle a 2 ohm load on their little IC chip amps that they use. If a manufactuer creates a 2 ohm component set, they have eliminated ALL of those consumers right off the bat. Thats why 99% of the car audio speakers (mids and highs) are 4 ohm.

If thats the case, it takes more power to run a 2ohm speaker then a 4ohm.. making it the worse choice in most circumstances.

True, but most amps make more power at 2 ohms than 4 ohms, so you are getting more bang for your buck. Its the same reason that you match the impedance of your subs to the amp. If I run my Memphis Belle's sub section into a 4 ohm load I get around 250 watts of power, if I run it into a 2 ohm load it puts out appx 500 watts, and if i give it a 1 ohm load it puts out 1000 watts.

Anyways, I'm not trying to battle you about it. I kinda came off sounding like that, and obviously you know your stuff so I appologize for that.

No sweat, I'm just trying to help dispel a few of the audio BS myths that everyone has heard and help a fellow TN'r out. Its all good.