01 Corolla audio. Speakers, subs, amps. Starting over...what did u do?

[morkys]

Ok, I have an 01 CE Corolla and I have had the stock CD radio deck replaced with a Pioneer CDRW 5100UB head unit. It has 3 sets of 4 volt pre-outs and is able to work with i-pods and USB flash drives, and can also be upgraded to do blue-tooth and HD radio. It's not perfect, but it's good and workable.

I also bought 4 Infinity Kappa 6.5" coax speakers, but I am re-thinking those. The front speakers are so low in the doors and even with the tweeter pointed up, the sound feels lost down there. I'm looking to replace these coax speakers, and also possibly get woofers/subwoofers etc and of course, amps. I need to figure things out in this car. I am looking at figuring out what to do, and then going at it one step at a time. I'm not looking for a standing wave noise making machine. I want the best good quality sound I can afford to put together, and it doesn't need to be crazy loud, but I am hoping to get some decent, tight low bass. Power amps will be used simply to obtain clean, un-distorted sound at reasonable volumes, and not cause everybody within 10 feet to good deaf or feel there clothes blowing in the subwoofer vibrations. I know, it's all subjective, but for example, I can't afford endless watts anyways, I will probably use between 75 and 150 watts RMS per channel, and no more than 200 to 300 watts rms for a subwoofer. For examples, maybe an Alpine PDX.5 or some combintation of the PDX.4.100 or 4.150 etc. Not cheap, but small, efficient and clean.

Front. Speaker and install options.

1) Can I use the doors to mount 6.5" mid-woofers that have low bass reponse, using the doors as an enclosure to get reasonabley deep bass given at least 100-150 watt rms per mid-woofer? Mount the tweeter close by but pointing up? Mount it and a separate 4"-5-1/4" midrange on a kick panel? I'd prefer keeping it simple with a two-way install.

2) Woofers/subwoofers. I would like to try and use the rear deck as a mounting surface for a pair of 6.5" "free-air" mid-woofers and perhaps add an additional separately powered "free-air" subwoofer later, perhaps 6.5", 8", 9" or 10" in size, whatever fits. Do I need to use non-free-air subwoofers and build an sealed enclosure that fits up below the rear deck to get the best sound?

I was thinking of first getting a 4 channel amp like an alpine pdx-4.100 or 4.150 to see how I can improve the sound of the speakers I have now. My main obstacles are that the speakers I have now likely cannot produce the bass I want, and also, the front tweeter, although aimed upward, is still not giving me enough upper midrange and treble, without my moving my legs and head around. I don't like the low and almost what seems like downward facing angle of the front door panel speaker mounting location.

So if you have a 2001 Corolla and you've done some custom audio install to your car, by all means, please drop in here and let me know your thoughts.

thanks,

[morkys]

Ok, I realize my post is complicated. I scare people off with too much information and too much to read. I'll simplify things with just the main questions here:

1) If I dampen and seal my front doors as best I can, and use at least 100-150 watts rms, can I get good bass from 6.5" mid-bass drivers? I'm looking at using M6 - CDT Audio 6.5" 300 Watt Mid-Bass/Sub-Bass Drivers in the front doors, and/or back deck:

http://www.woofersetc.com/p4848/M6--...ss-Drivers.htm

If I then install woofers and/or subwoofers on the back deck, will they interfere and create too many peaks/nulls in the car?

2) Has anybody installed 6.5" midrange/woofers in the door and installed a component tweeter somewhat close by aiming up? Instead of installing coax or up by the windoor/door pillar which is sometimes too far away to blend well.

3) What subwoofer setup's can I do with the back deck? 6.5" mid-woofers? 6.5" mid-woofer's and a subwoofer?

Help me starting with the front speakers. I will try my best to grab a nice 100 x 4 RMS Alpine PDX amp minimum and go from there.

[touringcamry]

Component speakers will sound better than coaxial speakers. If you can fit some components in front, that will be the way to go rather than coaxial speakers.

You should be looking at the RMS power of the amps and speakers, not the peak power ratings. The RMS values are what youwill get continuously. Peak values are momentary spikes.

If you plan to get a subwoofer, I wouldn't bother too much with the rear speakers

[morkys]

Agree about the component speakers. I just need to figure out whether I use mid-woofer to try and get bass from the front or not, and exactly where to mount/aim the tweeter.

Understood about power ratings. WRMS continuous is what I go by. If a speaker can handle x watts, I aim to get x watts rms or more. If you use a more powerful amp, you just have to be careful not to over do it. If a speaker handles 75 watts and you use a 50 watt amp, you are just as likely, or perhaps even more likely to blow the speaker by over-driving the amp into clipping than if you ran a 100 watt amp below clipping. Keep power the same or not too much higher (don't use a 400 watt amp with a 50 watt speaker) and avoid clipping.

I am re-teaching myself about the rear speakers. Trouble is, when you have poorly aimed front speakers, it always sounds better when you mix in rear speakers. That is the perception. Instead, some have been suggesting to avoid tweeters in the rear. I am deciding whether to go subwoofer only, or subwoofer and/or mid/woofers.

thanks for the feedback,

[gameguru1360]

I would also suggest in the Dynamat Extreme Bulk Pak when installing a subwoofer. It'll really cut down on the body panel rattlings and road noise. I have about 55% done in my rear deck and trunk area, but still need to double layer the trunk. I want to do the doors as well and also underneath the cushion of my 96 corolla's rear seats.

You should probably get the bulk pak as you don't want to waste money buying other smaller versions..

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=12655

[SexieWASD]

X2 on getting a bulk pack.

I'm going for two 10" subs in the rear deck, but if you are going the route of having them in the deck you need to decide if you are going to seal the trunk from the cab and use infinite baffle type drivers, or are you going to build a box below the deck. Just free airing them is NOT an option.

If you are going to build a box below the deck you can expect that you will need to cut the deck a bit and do some fiber glassing. If you are going with infinite baffle drivers you will have much less choice in drivers, but they are almost all sound quality oriented drivers, you will also need to cut mdf to seal the big gap behind the seats (good place to hide your amps btw) and you will need to seal the rear speaker holes, and all of the other holes in the rear deck, again fiber glass would be your best option.

If you are lucky you can find a reputable audio shop that can graph out the cabin gain in your car. Just by guessing my 96 camry has peaks at 20hz and 40hz, so the corolla with a smaller cabin should have peaks a bit higher than that. You should be good to tune as low as you like, but I would stay below 35hz to avoid a peaky response and "boomy" sound.

For the front stage I can't really give you any advice, I haven't found a setup that I really like yet, but I can tell you that going with tweeters in the sail panels won't exactly give you a wide sound stage.

If I were to start over on mine I would go with a sealed enclosure below the rear deck with either the same 10" subs that I have now, or a single 12".
I have mine ported at 34hz and the 20hz peak is still really (violently) noticeable.

[gameguru1360]

yeah ditto to the previous post on putting subs on the rear deck. Anytime you use the trunk as a free air enclosure, you'll need LOTS of power. It's better to go with a sealed or vented enclosure depending on your music tastes. I prefer going with vented because I go for loudness or SPL levels. I used to have dual kicker 12" cvr 4ohm dvc subs, but I got tired of putting things in my back seat whenever I'd go to a warehouse store such as Costco. I now only have a single 12" in a 2.15cf vented box and dual layer of dynamat on the rear deck and trunk. It sounds just as loud if not louder than having a dual box.

[morkys]

What are the sail panels? The panels off the pillar where the outside mirror adjusters are? Or are you talking about a kick panel below?

Originally Posted by SexieWASD

X2 on getting a bulk pack.

I'm going for two 10" subs in the rear deck, but if you are going the route of having them in the deck you need to decide if you are going to seal the trunk from the cab and use infinite baffle type drivers, or are you going to build a box below the deck. Just free airing them is NOT an option.

If you are going to build a box below the deck you can expect that you will need to cut the deck a bit and do some fiber glassing. If you are going with infinite baffle drivers you will have much less choice in drivers, but they are almost all sound quality oriented drivers, you will also need to cut mdf to seal the big gap behind the seats (good place to hide your amps btw) and you will need to seal the rear speaker holes, and all of the other holes in the rear deck, again fiber glass would be your best option.

If you are lucky you can find a reputable audio shop that can graph out the cabin gain in your car. Just by guessing my 96 camry has peaks at 20hz and 40hz, so the corolla with a smaller cabin should have peaks a bit higher than that. You should be good to tune as low as you like, but I would stay below 35hz to avoid a peaky response and "boomy" sound.

For the front stage I can't really give you any advice, I haven't found a setup that I really like yet, but I can tell you that going with tweeters in the sail panels won't exactly give you a wide sound stage.

If I were to start over on mine I would go with a sealed enclosure below the rear deck with either the same 10" subs that I have now, or a single 12".
I have mine ported at 34hz and the 20hz peak is still really (violently) noticeable.

[SexieWASD]

You had it right the first time, it's the triangular plastic piece behind the mirrors.

[morkys]

Originally Posted by SexieWASD

You had it right the first time, it's the triangular plastic piece behind the mirrors.

Gotcha. That's what I thought. I have put them there in the past on other cars, but only when the woofers were high and on the front dash. That woofer placement was the worst, btw. No real "enclosure" for the mid-woofer speakers, and the woofers pointed almost totally downward.

I am planning to place tweeters down around where the woofers are, but a little higher, just above the woofer, still aimed across the car, but pointing up a little more.

[morkys]

The main things I'm wondering about are whether or not I should use the front speakers for bass by using strong 6.5" mid-bass drivers in the doors, and also whether I should use the same type of 6.5" drivers in the rear for bass. There are a number of ways I could do it. 6.5" in the front for bass, 6.5" in the rear for bass, both front and rear, a larger subwoofer in the rear in some combination with the 6.5" woofers in the door and/or rear.

Would producing low bass in the front interfere with bass from the rear? Sould I limit my fronts to midrange above 50, 63 or 80 hz?

[gameguru1360]

Originally Posted by morkys

The main things I'm wondering about are whether or not I should use the front speakers for bass by using strong 6.5" mid-bass drivers in the doors, and also whether I should use the same type of 6.5" drivers in the rear for bass. There are a number of ways I could do it. 6.5" in the front for bass, 6.5" in the rear for bass, both front and rear, a larger subwoofer in the rear in some combination with the 6.5" woofers in the door and/or rear.

Would producing low bass in the front interfere with bass from the rear? Sould I limit my fronts to midrange above 50, 63 or 80 hz?

it shouldn't interfere. You should probably limit the front midrange to about 100hz or so. My kenwood x493 head unit has built-in crossovers and I put my rear 6.5" to 150hz, 4" front to 220hz as I have a 12" soundstream T5 sub for the bass frequencies

[morkys]

Those are high crossovers. I should have specified. I consider true low-bass for subwoofers anything below 80 hz. I was going to let the mid-woofers do the bass right down to their roll-off limits. The 6.5" mid-woofers I was looking at are made for that. I want sound quality and not SPL's...of course, once you factor in a subwoofer, it's different as to which mid-woofer/midrange should x-over where.

[SexieWASD]

Setting the sub to roll off around 70-80hz and the mid bass's highpass at around 100hz usually does well. I would at least make sure that you have a highpass filter on the mid bass so that you have the option to tweak it.

[morkys]

Can I use the doors and mid-woofers that have low response to get low bass to the woofers lowest response limit. Woofers like these:

http://www.woofersetc.com/p4848/M6--...ss-Drivers.htm

And use woofers like these on the rear deck? And then get a subwoofer later? I wouldn't crossover over these mid-woofers then. Otherwise, I'd use a front midrange and cross it higher. Debating whether I want to use all speakers to supply some bass, or limit the bass to just the rear woofers, or just the subwoofer.