Need help with subwoofer install.

[Bigtuna]

Edit: this issue has been resolved, see post 10 for the solution.

Hi all,

Just finished moving a subwoofer and amp from my Toyota PU to my 2010 Camry SE.

The short story is the sub output is almost nil...super quiet.

The long version:

Parts:

JBL Audio package (without Nav)
Sony XM-D1000P5 amp (500Wx1 @14.4v)
Pioneer Premier 10" shallow mount subwoofer
Custom box (professionally made)

I've done stereo installs in all my own cars and never really ran into problems but I am at a loss to explain this problem. One fundamental difference is that I'm using speaker-level inputs...I haven't done that for a long time.

Anyway the issue is the sub barely makes any sound at all. Even with the gain and DB boost turned all the way up on the amp, I can barely hear it.

For the speaker level inputs I tapped into the connectors that are visible in the trunk under the stock 6x9's. Maybe this is the problem? I have read some interesting stories on this forum about the JBL system.

I did see this information on Crutchfield's site (posted here previously):

http://crutchfield.custhelp.com/cgi-...i=&p_topview=1

Their diagram does *not* match my car so it appears the 2010 has changed. Specifically the speaker wires in the trunk are red and yellow on both speakers. Are they maybe wired in series since the wire colors are the same?

The other possible problem is wiring. I ran an 8 gauge wire kit because: I had it on hand from an old car; and I was lazy. The amp actually calls for 4 gauge, and that's what I had in my PU. But I can't see this causing the output to drop...fuses to blow, sure.

Please note that the amp and sub worked perfectly in my PU so I do not think the components are the problem.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

P.S. I wasn't sure if this car is considered GEN 6 or GEN 7...I've seen the 2010's called GEN 6.5? Anyway I picked GEN 6.

[touringcamry]

The JBL system is a bit different. Normally when you see speaker inputs, they are full range. On the JBL system, the amp has a crossover inside so it sends separate signal to the tweeter and the mid in the back (I assume this is what you tapped). If you got the signal from the tweeter, then there will be no output.

Check on the LOC or the amp for some kind of frequency adjustment and ensure you are passing the necessary frequencies in and out of the amp.

[Bigtuna]

Thanks for the reply. I've ready about the separate speakers in the rear, but I only see 1 pair of wires per speaker in the rear...is there another pair of wires hiding some place for the rear speakers?

Like I said, it seems that the system on the 2010 has changed so maybe there are no tweeters in the rear?

Anyway, thanks again.

[touringcamry]

Do you remember seeing 8 speakers in 6 locations or something like that in your window sticker?

[dr_green]

Originally Posted by Bigtuna

Hi all,

Just finished moving a subwoofer and amp from my Toyota PU to my 2010 Camry SE.

The short story is the sub output is almost nil...super quiet.

The long version:

Parts:

JBL Audio package (without Nav)
Sony XM-D1000P5 amp (500Wx1 @14.4v)
Pioneer Premier 10" shallow mount subwoofer
Custom box (professionally made)

I've done stereo installs in all my own cars and never really ran into problems but I am at a loss to explain this problem. One fundamental difference is that I'm using speaker-level inputs...I haven't done that for a long time.

Anyway the issue is the sub barely makes any sound at all. Even with the gain and DB boost turned all the way up on the amp, I can barely hear it.

For the speaker level inputs I tapped into the connectors that are visible in the trunk under the stock 6x9's. Maybe this is the problem? I have read some interesting stories on this forum about the JBL system.

I did see this information on Crutchfield's site (posted here previously):

http://crutchfield.custhelp.com/cgi-...i=&p_topview=1

Their diagram does *not* match my car so it appears the 2010 has changed. Specifically the speaker wires in the trunk are red and yellow on both speakers. Are they maybe wired in series since the wire colors are the same?

The other possible problem is wiring. I ran an 8 gauge wire kit because: I had it on hand from an old car; and I was lazy. The amp actually calls for 4 gauge, and that's what I had in my PU. But I can't see this causing the output to drop...fuses to blow, sure.

Please note that the amp and sub worked perfectly in my PU so I do not think the components are the problem.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

P.S. I wasn't sure if this car is considered GEN 6 or GEN 7...I've seen the 2010's called GEN 6.5? Anyway I picked GEN 6.

I dont' know if this matters, but aren't those subs specifically for tight spaces? Did you listen to them in a demo room and where they loud? If not, I would think the shallowmount speaker and box is playing a huge role in your your short coming. I really don't know anything about the shallowmount speakers so, this not a true fact just brainstorming your prob a little. good luck!

[Bigtuna]

Originally Posted by touringcamry

Do you remember seeing 8 speakers in 6 locations or something like that in your window sticker?

Yeah, you're right, it does still say that for the 2010. 2 in the dash, 2 in the doors, and I guess 4 on the deck? But I still don't know where the wires are.

Has anyone had any luck tapping the outputs of the deck, before the amp? I wonder if that would help.

[Bigtuna]

Originally Posted by dr_green

I dont' know if this matters, but aren't those subs specifically for tight spaces? Did you listen to them in a demo room and where they loud? If not, I would think the shallowmount speaker and box is playing a huge role in your your short coming. I really don't know anything about the shallowmount speakers so, this not a true fact just brainstorming your prob a little. good luck!

No problem thanks for the reply. You're right that the shallow mount speakers are good for tight spaces. I had this sub in a regular cab Toyota PU behind the passenger seat. But please trust me when I say it was quite loud in the truck.

In the Camry the speaker barely moves. So, I'm not really trying to say it's quiet from the driver's seat, I'm saying when I'm back in the trunk, touching the speaker, it hardly moves at all.

touringcamry could very well be right, that the signal's simply being crossed-out but I can't see those wires in the trunk being tweeter wires since they attach to the bottom of the 6x9.

I'm thinking I could disconnect the plug at the amp and try different output channels...but I guess if those aren't powered they won't work with the high-level input. Probably need a LOC to test that way?

Thanks everyone for looking so far...I hope I can figure it out.

[sicminds]

Sounds like you have a similar setup to me. I moved my amp and subs from my previous vehicle, '98 dakota reg cab into my trunk in my '10 camry. I installed the amp into my factory head unit by splicing the wires to the actual signal wires going into the head unit. I used the ones for the rear speakers for tuning convenience, and having the RCA's run all the way to the HU already I can connect it to an aftermarket HU later easily.

I doubt this is the case for you but I have noticed mine seems substantially quieter than it was in my truck, I think this is due to the larger interior. Also I'm going to build a new box soon to fit the trunk better, going to make this one ported..

[Bigtuna]

I took another look at the connections today and I can see that from inside the car, where the rear seat is, there are 4 wires going the to rear speakers, so I guess it's the same as previous. The colors also seemed to match the Crutchfield info. So I'm tapped into something...I just don't know what

Thanks for the reply sicmids. I am definitely not expecting it to be as loud as it was in my truck, but right now it's really not working right at all.

Sounds like you've already tried the solution I want to try: tapping into the signal before the amp.

I have a question: you said you ran RCA's from the deck to the amp; did you use a LOC to splice into the wires from the deck, or something else?

I was under the impression that a LOC expects a powered connection (i.e. amplified speaker inputs) so I was wondering if there's some other piece of hardware to use if you're getting a pre-amped signal.

Thanks again!

[Bigtuna]

Really appreciate everyone's ideas, I've got the problem fixed. Here are the details:

I tried sicminds' idea to tap into the pre-amp signal. This actually worked...sort of. What I did is cut into a set of RCA cables and attach them to the pre-amp wires. This is only a 1.9v load so it works fine as pre-amp input to the amp.

I say this worked "sort of" because, while the subwoofer output was good, changing the volume on the deck did not attenuate the sub! Apparently the attenuation in the JBL setup occurs at the amp and not the deck. So I could only have the sub playing at 1 level (not acceptable, obviously).

Going back to touringcamry's comment about the crossover, I next tapped into the door woofer signal (and switched back to high-level input at the amp). This works!

I haven't actually hooked anything up yet, I was just running test wires, but so far things sound MUCH better.

The moral of the story is, don't tap into the wires under the 6x9's in the trunk! Whatever they are, they don't work.

Thanks again!

[touringcamry]

Originally Posted by Bigtuna

Yeah, you're right, it does still say that for the 2010. 2 in the dash, 2 in the doors, and I guess 4 on the deck? But I still don't know where the wires are.

Has anyone had any luck tapping the outputs of the deck, before the amp? I wonder if that would help.

The back is a coax speaker but since they're independently driven they consider it two speakers.

How big is your sub box? MDF or fiberglass?

[Bigtuna]

Originally Posted by touringcamry

How big is your sub box? MDF or fiberglass?

It's MDF. It's pretty small, maybe 12" wide by 18" tall by 5" deep (at the bottom, it tapers towards the top).

I actually didn't have it made: a friend of mine had it made by a local shop but they forgot to account for his rollbar so they had to make him another one. I got a good deal on this one since they couldn't really do anything with it.

At some point I've love to get a Stealthbox but they are kind of prohibitively expensive and I actually don't have a lot of confidence in the W3's. I went through 2 of them on a previous car before upgrading to a W7.

[Bigtuna]

Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention:

I ended up tapping into the front woofer signal (rather than the rears) because I tend to fade the system to the front since the rear speakers kinda sound like crap. Certainly it's not required to do it this way.

[gameguru1360]

I'd probably get rid of the sony amp and go with something like a hifonics or Soundstream amp or something. Sony subs and amps don't really last too long or put out a lot of watts. The Xplod line actually does just that...it explodes and fizzles!

[Bigtuna]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not actually having a problem with the amp and it's been rock solid for about 6 years. I used it to power a JL 12W7 without issue in my WRX.

I know that Sony bashing is a fairly popular pastime but I have always had great experiences with their amps and head units (I've never used their speakers).