sound imaging - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

97avalonxls · 09-30-2004, 10:05 AM

what is the general rule for getting the best sound stage / imaging in a car, speakers in the rear door, rear deck, both, mid bass on deck with tweets elswhere?
I have space in the doors and on the rear deck, the door can take 4 or 5.25 with a 1 inch tweet spot and the rear deck will be a custom built fiberglass enclosure to suit whatever I decide.
I originally intended on getting two koda 8's for the rear deck, but alas they won't fit

without being basically up against the rear glass.
I was just going to switch to the koda 6's, but it occured to me that since I need to replace my rear speakers I might want to get more creative with the back seat.
Any imput, including speaker recommendations, is much appriciated

Toysrme · 09-30-2004, 10:17 AM

All the sound should come from the front... Just like in every other sintuation on earth, sound should come from in front of you.

Now it takes some getting use to for most people, and it's really infeasable to image everything infront of you in a car that's not a competition car. However, there is help! Bass is generally a onmidirectional sound, so it doesn't really matter where it comes from. Truck, roof, dash, for non competition it just doesn't matter.

I say leave out the rear "fill" and put everything you can in the front. The higher and more pointed at the driver you can get the better.

It's fine to put tweeters in the door posts and leave the 6.5" speakers in the door. You can also get boxes that replace the panel covers by your feet on both sides that hold a 6" to 8" speaker.

97avalonxls · 09-30-2004, 10:52 AM

interesting. My only issue is that I really cannot sacrifice any of my leg room because I'm 6'4" and my car has its ebrake dowm by the pedals, while I know I could probobly move that, I just feel like putting a 6.5 or 8 inch driver there would really cramp me. What exactly is the rule for suond in the 80 to 500,1000,1500 hz range? when does it lose it's omnidirectionality (invented word) and begin to need to be focused. I could always move the tweets from the rear onto say the B-pillars and put the mid bass on the rear deck, pointed at the front seat passengers. any thoughts?

eddiem67 · 09-30-2004, 11:39 AM

I do not recommend that install. Ideally an SQ car runs a 2 or 3 way set up in front with about 125-200 watts per channel. the sub(s) should be sealed or IB. My suggestion is start with a 2 way set up, these are easier to set up imaging wise. Nothing smaller than a 6.5, kickpanels give you the best imaging, or you can do what rawdawg did and build them into the floor. You will have to design your own kickpanels (fiberglassing) or you can put them in your doors, its will take some cutting and lots of dampening but it will sound just as good. the tweeter placement is excellent in the kick panel, but the latest rave now in the sq circuit is the A pillar off axis. Play with the tweeter, put some two sided tape on it and place it in varous locations so see what you prefer. Other options you can do is run dual 6.5 per door, one strictly for midbass and the other for mid range. non-directional bass is about 60Hz and below, maybe even 80Hz.

97avalonxls · 09-30-2004, 11:56 AM

thanks for the reply, I don't necessarily need to stay two way, I was thinking about swapping out the PG amp for a four or six channel. The dual 6.5's is an interesting idea, I'm not quite sure I understand it fully, are you suggesting no tweeter with that approach? seems unlikely, but Icouldn't tell. also, if i decide to put 6.5 up front should I just move the 4" Quart sets to the back seat and not really worry about rear fill?

97avalonxls · 09-30-2004, 12:01 PM

toys- what sort of box are you talking about by my feet, are you talking about kickpanels, or something else, custom or prefab?

eddiem67 · 09-30-2004, 01:42 PM

dual 6.5 is just a 3 way set up, think of the k.i.s.s system (keep it simple stupid) the more speaker you put in will not alway give you the best sound. Actually it takes more time to tune. You dont need a 8" for midbass, my 6.5 is crossed at 63Hz, but easily plays down to the 40's. Scott Buwalda has his crossed at 32Hz! Thats insane. 32Hz on a 6.5? I guess he knows what he's doing, since he is taking 1st place in competitions. Think simple first, btw you are getting rid of that kicker sub right? I would look at ED for SQ or even Image Dynamics.

97avalonxls · 09-30-2004, 01:50 PM

I was originally going to lose the subs, but I'm not sure that my budget will allow that right now. any idea how the brahma does as far as SQ?

eddiem67 · 09-30-2004, 04:05 PM

We being that I owned 1 at one time, this sub is super clean on the low end , sealed or ported, I ran both. My problem was at the time I did not have enough midbass up front to equalize the output of the brahma. The Brahma is 1 bad momma!

97avalonxls · 09-30-2004, 04:33 PM

that certainly seems to be the word, them folks at adire are off the chain. Got any experience with the Koda 6?

eddiem67 · 09-30-2004, 05:18 PM

Yup I am using the sadhara for my home system, shakes the 2nd floor!

Toysrme · 09-30-2004, 09:26 PM

Both, You can buy cheap ugly one's from cardoimain and ebay type places, or you can fab your own.

I'm not into it, but it's not my thing! I just love my Kappa 6.5" in the door, replaced the stock 1" tweets in the beam with the kappa ones. Still has the stock 3" speakers in the dash ssmb8's replacing the 6*9's and a pair of 2004 L7 10's in custom sealed boxes with a 1200.1 JBL amp.

97avalonxls · 10-01-2004, 12:17 AM

I think I 've come to a pretty good solution, i'm going to get some morel 5" for the front doors, move my quarts to the rear doors and , after some extensive sound tests done tonight, put two koda 6's on the rear deck, aimed at the driver and passengers head, in a custom fiberglasss, sealed, high q enclosure, and the two comp vr fifteens also in their sealed boxes in the trunk. I think it's gonna work out nicely. I really kind of enjoy the separate midbass coming from the rear