1st time working with 'glass - tips needed. - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums


» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
» Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Nation Forums > Audio, Video, and Security - Tech

Audio, Video, and Security - Tech For the electro-techies and the bass heads.

ToyotaNation.com is the premier Toyota Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2005, 08:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
Phi
Whine Connoisseur
 
Phi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: T-DOT
Posts: 6,583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 2 reviews
View Phi's Photo Gallery
1st time working with 'glass - tips needed. ~pics added~

Okay, now that the heatwave is over, I wanna start working on my fiberglass wheel well enclosure. I've read through the tutorials posted in the Sticky section but had a few basic questions before I started;

1. Mixing resin and hardener - so I've been told that the rule of thumb for mixing hardner to resin is 0.02:1 (ie. 20ml of hardner to every litre of resin). How forgiving is this ratio if I goof up?

2. Clean up - is Acetone all I need to tidy up any mess a make?

3. Any other tips you can offer a newb is appreciated.

I already have a half started box donated by Luc. Kinda like this;


My plan of attack includes;
-add a few more layers to the back.
-mount a ring which I've already cut.
-stretch cloth over ring and 'glass
-trim excess cloth
-apply thin coat of bondo and sand
-paint or carpet. still undecided.

Tada!
All the pics can be found on ImageStation







Finished!!

Vids:
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=146-4665_MVI
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=146-4663_MVI
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=146-4661_MVI






See why I need to make an amp rack now!?

btw- the sub is a 12" JL W3 powered by a Zapco 750 AG (now known as Reference Series)
__________________
TN Map - Add Yourself

Last edited by Phi; 06-24-2005 at 02:53 PM.
Phi is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-16-2005, 08:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
deviate from the absolute
 
Knailgun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Schenevus NY
Posts: 4,874
Gameroom cash: $285780
Thanks: 11
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 40 reviews
View Knailgun's Photo Gallery
[QUOTE=Phi]Okay, now that the heatwave is over, I wanna start working on my fiberglass wheel well enclosure. I've read through the tutorials posted in the Sticky section but had a few basic questions before I started;

1. Mixing resin and hardener - so I've been told that the rule of thumb for mixing hardner to resin is 0.02:1 (ie. 20ml of hardner to every litre of resin). How forgiving is this ratio if I goof up?

it is a little forgiving for the mixing.......better to have a little too much hardner than resin....just makes you work a bit faster if you do.
2. Clean up - is Acetone all I need to tidy up any mess a make?

acetone works well for cleanup. Personally I would newspaper the garage if I were to do it again.....don't foget the paint mixing sticks either
3. Any other tips you can offer a newb is appreciated.

ventilated area......you'll feel like shit if you are working without good airflow when using that stuff. remeber...don't be preoccupied with getting it perfectly glassed....bodo will eat up most everything when you go over it.
__________________

version 4.0 is here http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...56#post3188156
Knailgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 09:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
Phi
Whine Connoisseur
 
Phi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: T-DOT
Posts: 6,583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 2 reviews
View Phi's Photo Gallery
I'll be doing most of the work outdoor in the backyard so I'm not too worried about ventalation. Although I will keep your suggestion in mind and pull out a fan if there isn't enough of a draft to clear the fumes.

Speaking of perfecting the finish, any suggestions on brush types or techniques to minimize air bubbles?
__________________
TN Map - Add Yourself
Phi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 09:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
deviate from the absolute
 
Knailgun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Schenevus NY
Posts: 4,874
Gameroom cash: $285780
Thanks: 11
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 40 reviews
View Knailgun's Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
I'll be doing most of the work outdoor in the backyard so I'm not too worried about ventalation. Although I will keep your suggestion in mind and pull out a fan if there isn't enough of a draft to clear the fumes.

Speaking of perfecting the finish, any suggestions on brush types or techniques to minimize air bubbles?


I usually use a 1" wide paintbrush...and to combat the bubbles....for the big ones I use (beleive it or not) toothpicks....works great
__________________

version 4.0 is here http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...56#post3188156
Knailgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 09:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
Phi
Whine Connoisseur
 
Phi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: T-DOT
Posts: 6,583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 2 reviews
View Phi's Photo Gallery
^ mint flavoured or plain ones?
__________________
TN Map - Add Yourself
Phi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 09:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
deviate from the absolute
 
Knailgun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Schenevus NY
Posts: 4,874
Gameroom cash: $285780
Thanks: 11
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 40 reviews
View Knailgun's Photo Gallery
mint of course....el oh el
__________________

version 4.0 is here http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...56#post3188156
Knailgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 11:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
Where's my boomstick?
 
Tommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: charlotte NC
Posts: 2,528
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
View Tommy's Photo Gallery
The mixture is definatly forgiving, as long as you are in the ball park, it will be fine, it just effects the drying time.

i mix batches of 4oz at a time, and add about 50 drops of hardener to the resin, working at a decent pace, i use up all the resin before it starts to gel.
__________________
My garage
1991 Nissan Maxima SE V6 5SPD - daily beater - Sold
1988 VW GTI 1.8l 16v - weekend beater - Blown engine
2005 Elantra GT sedan 5spd - Woo, no more beatup cars!
Tommy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 02:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
Beams SV21
 
da_horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Melbourne, Aust
Posts: 541
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View da_horse's Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
1. Mixing resin and hardener - so I've been told that the rule of thumb for mixing hardner to resin is 0.02:1 (ie. 20ml of hardner to every litre of resin). How forgiving is this ratio if I goof up?
generally i put in more, depends on the drying time that you desire and the temperature that you are working at. hotter the air temp, quicker the dry time. i usually add a bit more as i work a bit quicker. however when i first started out i mixed the right amount and just took my time. if you are a bit more cautious you can make little batches of resin and just glass a little bit at a time. this allows you to get used to the process and understand the characteristics of resin and fibreglass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
2. Clean up - is Acetone all I need to tidy up any mess a make?
acetone should be fine to clean up however i rarely used it. What i did was lay down some newspapers around the area i was working in to catch any spills etc. then i wore two latex gloves on each hand. the reason why i used two was:
1. preventative measure in case the outside glove ripped.
2. once you start to glass then the fibres get stuck to the glove and can get messy.
so if u need that way once you're done just whip off the outside glove and you have

two clean gloves if you wish u can put on another glove to continue. i usually use
the two and take the outer glove off when i'm finished glassing and clean up.
brush wise, i just bought a pack of shitty ones and threw them out once i had finished glassing. once the brush has hardened just discard.
any spills then use acetone. DONT MIX ACETONE AND HARDENER, as in the right amounts you'll get a fire going due to the exothermic reaction that occurs. you'll understand what i mean when you touch the glass as it dries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
3. Any other tips you can offer a newb is appreciated.
wear a dust mask at least. i used a respirator with dual agricultural filters just to be safe but you should be fine with a simple thick dust mask. if you do use a respirator, remember people cant hear you when you talk through it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
-add a few more layers to the back.
test fit the mould that Luc has given you and make sure that its flush if its flush then dont add layers to the outside as this will increase the thickness of the box and then the fitting might not be as good. what layers are you going to add? i use chopped matt that i have pre cut or ripped(ripped is better to fuse pieces together) to a workable size. i rip my glass into certain shapes that basically form a layer that i'll add. this way i can go slowly and have a good layer when i'm done. if you are good then lay one huge sheet on, but i wouldnt advise that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
-mount a ring which I've already cut.
use a heat glue gun and mount ur ring onto the dried FG box. if you have trouble with the glue holding you can use something like Liquid Nails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
-stretch cloth over ring and 'glass
when stretching the fabric, you may encounter the problem whereby the cloth wont hold to the back of the box. what i did was hot glue what parts i could, then get some thread and a needle and just pulled the sections that werent tight back towards the centre of the box. that way i could adjust the cloth as i desired to get the fabric all taut. dont cut the fabric to size, just make sure there is enough to get it all pulled back to one point at the back of the box.

just glass over the whole fabric first paying attention to where its contact the sides of the box. once the cloth gets a little tacky then apply the first layer of glass. i'll add some more general tips at the end.

remember to get the fabric soaked really well, paying careful attention to where it contacts the side of the box and the mdf ring. this ensures that the fabric has bonded and wont cause any problems later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
-trim excess cloth
i didnt have a dremel so the method i use is a bit prehistoric. remove the thread from the fabric and lifted the fabric off any sections that were hot glued. i then took a screwdriver and scraped off the hot glue. after that i took a sharp razor and cut the fabric off, areas which were a tad thick i used a metal hacksaw. however as you have a dremel and will be adding layers of glass on top of the box, i'd reccomend using the cutting tool to carefully remove the excess. dont worry about getting to close to the edge as its better to cut a little less and grind the rest of flush then cut into the box

for the ring, i used my razor and hack saw again, but u can use your trusty dremel. as above take it slowly and if in doubt cut a little less and grind off to a flush finish after. (i think i should get a dremel )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
-apply thin coat of bondo and sand
if you carpet then dont bother sanding. if you are going to vinyl or paint then you'll need to sand like there's no tomorrow, except there will be if you dont get it done just mix the bondo and apply a nice smooth layer all over the box. not too thick, but enough to cover all the pits or imperfections. dont worry, if you dont add enough you can add more afterwards.

once the bondo has dried use 60 grade sandpaper to get the roughness out. then move up the scale to 120. if you need to add more bondo add it now. if not move up to 200 then 400 (wet and dry then 800 wet and dry) if you are going to paint it then stop at 200, spray a thick layer of primer and sand it back with 400 and 800 lightly. not too much that you hit the bondo, but enough to get that baby bottoms smoothness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phi
-paint or carpet. still undecided.
paint will be a bitch, carpet is easy like mine but i ran out of time


General Tips
-if you sand you'll need a mask, its the dust that gets all over you that will make you itch.
-wear old clothes as if they get dirty, you wont give two shits.
-fibreglass dust is really itchy. yes it does go away but it will be extremely annoying. i was itchy for a few days after i finished. the dust that gets embedded in your pores will just dissolve after awhile, but its the time they're in you that is bad. hot showers feel good to get rid of the itch. dont scratch or touch your skin while sanding as this just impregnates the glass into more pores. i'd reccommend long sleeve shirts but since you're doing it in summer like i did, you'll end up wearing a t-shirt.
-sand outside as the family doesnt appreciate getting itchy with you.

-when laying glass remember that its the glass that you want not resin. dont pour excess resin on the box as its pointless. what you can do is get a piece of cardboard and use that as a board to pre soak your glass before applying it to the box. i would also reccommend adding a thin layer of resin to the current box before you glass some more. actually if the current box feels a tad waxy inside, just give it a brief sand with some 80 to get it nice and rough for the new glass layers. make sure each piece of glass is thoroughly soaked with resin before placing it onto the box. when you place the wet glass on the box, use a dabbing motion to ensure it adheres totally to the box. you will not want any air bubbles.

-add layers up slowly if you are not working with a quick dry time. wet resin and glass can move a bit due to gravity. wait for each layer to get a little tacky before you add your next layer so that you dont end up with layers of moving glass and causing you to

-once all layers are dry trim with dremel

-if need be you can add a layer of glass to the inside edges where the fabric meets the back layers. this just ensures that the box is fully sturdy.

-as this will be a sub box, i would reccommend at least 5 layers of fibreglass.

-safety gear is advised, but its up to your own discretion. i'd reccomend a mask as minimum.

-cover that dome of yours with a hat as an itchy head may make others paranoid and think you have lice


well thats all that i can remember at the moment. if you have any questions just ask and i'll be glad to help.

Cheers

edit: hmm my reply was longer then i thought
__________________
Huy

1989 BEAMS 3S-GE SV21 Camry
2003 ST246 Caldina GT-Four N

Last edited by da_horse; 06-16-2005 at 02:25 PM.
da_horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 02:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
Phi
Whine Connoisseur
 
Phi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: T-DOT
Posts: 6,583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 2 reviews
View Phi's Photo Gallery
^ you expect me to read that?!

I'll go through it when I get home. Looks like some really good tips buried in all that gibberish. Thnks mate!

While you're on a roll...what sort of time frame am I roughly looking at before the resin mixture starts to get tacky (assuming 0.02:1 used)? Should I have little strips of FG cloth pre-ripped and ready to go or do I have enough time to play around?
__________________
TN Map - Add Yourself

Last edited by Phi; 06-16-2005 at 02:46 PM.
Phi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 02:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
Beams SV21
 
da_horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Melbourne, Aust
Posts: 541
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View da_horse's Photo Gallery
of course i expect you to read that, some day, when the paint has dried, and the grass has grown

pre rip your glass, and rip in excess as you dont want to try and rip glass while you're hand are full of resin

time frame, hmmm, depends really on the air temp etc, i'm not sure as i did one layer on top of the fabric and left it like that. but i could say approx 10 min? i cant say for sure but basically tacky doesnt mean almost dry, but dry enough to know it wont move. just do a trial run and trust me you'll just know what to do and when once you've had a go.

Cheers
__________________
Huy

1989 BEAMS 3S-GE SV21 Camry
2003 ST246 Caldina GT-Four N
da_horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 05:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
Grenaded piston
 
88 LE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skoolin' the unlearned since 2001
Posts: 6,519
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View 88 LE's Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by da_horse
wear a dust mask at least. i used a respirator with dual agricultural filters just to be safe but you should be fine with a simple thick dust mask. if you do use a respirator, remember people cant hear you when you talk through it
A dust mask is fine when your sanding, but when your working with resin use a respirator. Unless you want to get high off the fumes.
__________________
"Skoolin' the unlearned!"
88 LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 06:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
Phi
Whine Connoisseur
 
Phi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: T-DOT
Posts: 6,583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 2 reviews
View Phi's Photo Gallery
phew...I just finished reading Horse's reply. It sounds like so much trouble I almost don't even wanna go ahead now j/k Those were some very good, well written and thorough instructions. I think you covered most, if not all the tips. Much appreciated man!

I stopped by the dollar store and grabbed a cpl brushes and latex gloves. I have the day off tommorrow and will report on the progress I make. If you don't hear from me, I'm prolly passed out from the fumes
__________________
TN Map - Add Yourself
Phi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2005, 11:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
Beams SV21
 
da_horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Melbourne, Aust
Posts: 541
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View da_horse's Photo Gallery
umm yeah...it was a reply and a half.

Maybe we should add thread to the FAQ as my reply above will generally cover most peoples questions. i actually had step by step pictures of my door pods build up, roughly 4-500 pics before selection, but my sister's friend wiped my memory card

i may do another FG project so i'll take photos then too.

yeah dust mask is fine, and if you work down wind then you wont get too high. only reason why i used my respirator throughout was i had it from when i was doing other stuff

good luck Phi, and remember if you get high, dont drink resin as its not jelly
__________________
Huy

1989 BEAMS 3S-GE SV21 Camry
2003 ST246 Caldina GT-Four N
da_horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2005, 08:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
Phi
Whine Connoisseur
 
Phi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: T-DOT
Posts: 6,583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 2 reviews
View Phi's Photo Gallery
errr..where am I???? Why didn't you guys warn me about the fumes

Alright, I woke up this morning and had left over pizza and orange juice for breakfest. Can't work on an empty stomach ya know! There was a chance of rain in the foreast so I backed the car out of the carport (sheltered driveway) and layed out all the supplies I'd needed

I just eyeballed the resin mixture ratio and went at it (~14oz:tiny cap full of hardener). This gave me just enough time to cover half the box at a time b4 it started to gel up. The dbl glove tip worked great. Otherwise, I would have had sticky resin combined with threads of FG all over my hands. I found that a "dabbing/stapping" motion with the brush worked best to saturate the FG. I proceeded to put on 2 layers of FG. I was surprised at how much FG matt I used. I initially bought a sheet roughly the size of a single mattress and already went through 2/3 of it and I haven't even done the front yet. I guess I'll be making a trip to the store later.

So all in all, things are going great. I'm gonna let the first layers set, go buy some more FG matt then add a few more layers before proceeding with the ring and cloth phase. Thanks again for the tips guys. They really helped. I'll update ya later.
__________________
TN Map - Add Yourself
Phi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2005, 09:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
Beams SV21
 
da_horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Melbourne, Aust
Posts: 541
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View da_horse's Photo Gallery
Good too see that its all working out for you

did you find that everything seemed much easier once you actually tried it?
another tip is to have chop the bristle length on the brush so that your left with a short stiff brush. this allows you to stabb/dabb harder and hence work out the bubbles easier. leave about 2" of bristles is fine.

where are you getting your FG from? if you can find a boating store, you may be able to get the fibreglass cheaper.

are you wetting the glass before laying or after laying it on the box?

keep up the good work mate, and PICS! we all want pics
__________________
Huy

1989 BEAMS 3S-GE SV21 Camry
2003 ST246 Caldina GT-Four N
da_horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Nation Forums > Audio, Video, and Security - Tech

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:53 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
ToyotaNation.com is an independent Toyota/Lexus enthusiast website. ToyotaNation.com is not sponsored by or in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. The Toyota, Lexus and Scion names and logos are trademarks owned by Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.