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Old 09-16-2005, 12:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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DIAMOND AUDIO S600S 6-1/2 - who has em . . . and how did

With the advice of the all knowing sound guru CAM, I am going to be installing (that sounds scary me installing) some s600s.

I have a C400.4 Polk Audio amp that has bi-amping capablities . . .

They say it works with their components . . will it work with my Diamonds?

Anyhow PLEASE tell me the low down on how to install these bad boys.

I want to keep some rear fill so I assume I will power those off the head unit . . .

BTW the diamonds just dont look like they will do as good as the polks . . .

Sorry for show my "greenery" here . . . but this is why I am on this board for the help from the pros . .
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Old 09-16-2005, 01:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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And y dont u think they will sound as good?
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Old 09-16-2005, 01:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I am just saying they look small

compared to the bix 6x9 polks I have now . . .

I heard so many good things about them wanted to try them out.

Plus they can handle like 150 watts RMS.
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Old 09-16-2005, 01:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I never reccomended the Diamond Hex's, they're JUNK!!


No just playing, they're good, but I don't take credit(or blame ) for the rec., I just rec. components over coaxials. But yes they will in fact tear the Polks a new one.

If you want to wire active, you will want to use the onboard crossovers in the headunit, not the amps. It is pretty complicated, are you sure you want to go active? It can take many hours to set it up right, but it can yeild better results. But you do have a very capable headunit for it.

Do you still have the manual for the cd player? If so, re-read it, especially the part where they talk about setting it up in 3 way mode.

Basically you are going to want to wire the front channels of the amp to power the tweeters. And the rear channels to power the mids. Wiring is quite simple. You will not be using the passive crossovers supplied with the component set.

The tricky part is setting up all the right crossover points, slopes, where to set the eq's, then you have to play with time alignment. It can be very time consuming and mentally challenging, but you seem smart enough to grasp the concept.

The RCA connections from the headunit to the amp should be the same as you have now. Front RCA's to front channels of the 4 ch amp, rear RCA's to the rear channels of the amp. Sub channel to the sub amp.

You need to put the headunit into 3 way mode. Now I'm not too familiar with Alpine headunits, but I THINK you might have a switch in the back of the headunit that you will have to switch over. I could be wrong though. Read your manual(STUDY you manual and take notes)

Now these crossover points I'm going to give you are in general. You need to listen to what sounds best to your ears and go from there.

Quick terms....HPF High Pass Filters, Allows freqencies above this crossover point to play through. (High Pass)

LPF, opposite of HPF, allows lower frequencies to pass through its given crossover point.

Bandpass. This is what you get when you set the HPF and LPF for the mids, you get frquencies between these two crossover points.

Tweeters- HPF on, set to anywhere from 2Khz to 3.5khz. Gotta find the sweet spot where the tweeters aren't playing too low to distort, and not too high to where the mids won't be able to cover the gap in frequencies between the mids and tweeters.

Mids- Mids are a little trickier. You have to set both HPF and LPF. HPF 60-90 HZ, give or take. You want to set the HPF so that the mids aren't playing so low that you will have distortion. Lower frecencies are for the subs. But you want you front speakers to play as low as the can(cleanly). This helps so that you can't localize the subwoofers. You want the mids to blend well with the subs so that it sounds like it's all coming from the front.

Mid-LPF ON 2khz-3.0khz, again you gotta play with these figures and see what sounds best. You don't want your mids straining to play the higher frequencies.

You also need to set the crossover slopes (db) You may want to talk to Klaymen333, i know he has experience with wiring Diamond Hexes active, he can probably help more than I can since he has hands on experience with those drivers.
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Old 09-16-2005, 01:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cam2Xrunner
I never reccomended the Diamond Hex's, they're JUNK!!


No just playing, they're good, but I don't take credit(or blame ) for the rec., I just rec. components over coaxials. But yes they will in fact tear the Polks a new one.

If you want to wire active, you will want to use the onboard crossovers in the headunit, not the amps. It is pretty complicated, are you sure you want to go active? It can take many hours to set it up right, but it can yeild better results. But you do have a very capable headunit for it.

Do you still have the manual for the cd player? If so, re-read it, especially the part where they talk about setting it up in 3 way mode.

Basically you are going to want to wire the front channels of the amp to power the tweeters. And the rear channels to power the mids. Wiring is quite simple. You will not be using the passive crossovers supplied with the component set.

The tricky part is setting up all the right crossover points, slopes, where to set the eq's, then you have to play with time alignment. It can be very time consuming and mentally challenging, but you seem smart enough to grasp the concept.

The RCA connections from the headunit to the amp should be the same as you have now. Front RCA's to front channels of the 4 ch amp, rear RCA's to the rear channels of the amp. Sub channel to the sub amp.

You need to put the headunit into 3 way mode. Now I'm not too familiar with Alpine headunits, but I THINK you might have a switch in the back of the headunit that you will have to switch over. I could be wrong though. Read your manual(STUDY you manual and take notes)

Now these crossover points I'm going to give you are in general. You need to listen to what sounds best to your ears and go from there.

Quick terms....HPF High Pass Filters, Allows freqencies above this crossover point to play through. (High Pass)

LPF, opposite of HPF, allows lower frequencies to pass through its given crossover point.

Bandpass. This is what you get when you set the HPF and LPF for the mids, you get frquencies between these two crossover points.

Tweeters- HPF on, set to anywhere from 2Khz to 3.5khz. Gotta find the sweet spot where the tweeters aren't playing too low to distort, and not too high to where the mids won't be able to cover the gap in frequencies between the mids and tweeters.

Mids- Mids are a little trickier. You have to set both HPF and LPF. HPF 60-90 HZ, give or take. You want to set the HPF so that the mids aren't playing so low that you will have distortion. Lower frecencies are for the subs. But you want you front speakers to play as low as the can(cleanly). This helps so that you can't localize the subwoofers. You want the mids to blend well with the subs so that it sounds like it's all coming from the front.

Mid-LPF ON 2khz-3.0khz, again you gotta play with these figures and see what sounds best. You don't want your mids straining to play the higher frequencies.

You also need to set the crossover slopes (db) You may want to talk to Klaymen333, i know he has experience with wiring Diamond Hexes active, he can probably help more than I can since he has hands on experience with those drivers.
First thanks for the info . . .

Second you are right you said go components not diamonds.

Third - questions/comments.

1. I have seen the 3 way mode switch on the bottom of the head unit.
2. Do I disable all the HP and LP on the amps? Since the HU will be doing all this . .
3. Is timing necessary will it make a big difference?
4. I understand all the HP, LP ans SS filters . . . well SS is not usually set by the user.
5. Do I power my rear fill with the head unit? I guess I can't since I will be using the rear channels for the mids . . .


How would this work . . .

Bridge my 4 channels to the Diamond Xovers then run the RF connection to my rear polks.

Would I lose a lot of sound quality?
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Old 09-16-2005, 02:01 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robsatx
1. I have seen the 3 way mode switch on the bottom of the head unit.
2. Do I disable all the HP and LP on the amps? Since the HU will be doing all this . .
I would disable them, just remember that if the headunit's settings are ever reset you need to be very sure that you re-set those crossovers to where you had them before playing. You don't want the tweeters playing full range. Hardcore Audiophile amps don't even have onboard crossovers.

Quote:
3. Is timing necessary will it make a big difference?
Not necessarily needed if you can place the tweeters right next to the mids. In a perfect world (home audio) the pathlength differences of the tweeters to your ears and the mids to your ears are the same distance.

However in a car/truck environment we are not so lucky. Your right tweeter/mid is going to be farther from your ears to your left tweeter/mid, and the tweeters in general will be a different pathlength to your ear than the mids.

EDIT: Also the tweeters are going to be more than 6" away from your mids. Typically the best place to mount the tweeters is in the A Pillars, 2" above the highest point on the dash.

This helps by raising the soundstage, but you need to compensate for the difference in pathlength from the tweeter to the mid.

It's pretty tricky stuff man, i ain't gonna lie. I'm still pretty green to wiring active and messing with crossover points, slopes, time alignment and all that jazz.

Quote:

4. I understand all the HP, LP ans SS filters . . . well SS is not usually set by the user.
Subsonic filters for subs, is typically used when you are using a ported or bandpass enclosure. With a sealed enclosure it needs not apply.

Quote:
5. Do I power my rear fill with the head unit? I guess I can't since I will be using the rear channels for the mids . . .
You should be able to do that, but why? Rear speakers only hurt the overall performance of the system as a whole. I'm pretty sure that once you get these Diamonds wired up, adjusted, and the gains set on the amps properly that your rear passengers will be yelling at you to TURN DOWN THE VOLUME!!!!

Quote:
How would this work . . .

Bridge my 4 channels to the Diamond Xovers then run the RF connection to my rear polks.

Would I lose a lot of sound quality?
You could bridge the amp to power the crossovers. You are going to lose the ability to hand pick your crossover points, and you also lose the ability to use your time alignment between the tweeters and mids. But it will still sound good.

but if you were going that route, you could have gotten a headunit that costs 300 dollars less and get the same exact results. See what I'm saying?
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Old 09-17-2005, 12:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Great reading ,Cam u are the bombdiggidy.When it actually cools off outside I'm going active with my Chameleons,1st I got to add some more deadening to the inside of the outer door skin & get a pair of deflex pads.
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Old 09-17-2005, 05:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigloubumpin
Great reading ,Cam u are the bombdiggidy.When it actually cools off outside I'm going active with my Chameleons,1st I got to add some more deadening to the inside of the outer door skin & get a pair of deflex pads.
I'm still pretty new to the technical stuff. But I have a basic idea of what's going on.

Let me know how it works out for you. I think your 9813 has all the crossovers you need to wire active as well.
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Old 09-17-2005, 11:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cam2Xrunner
I'm still pretty new to the technical stuff. But I have a basic idea of what's going on.

Let me know how it works out for you. I think your 9813 has all the crossovers you need to wire active as well.
9813 good to go
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Old 09-18-2005, 03:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigloubumpin
9813 good to go
How's it coming along?
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Old 09-18-2005, 04:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Havent tried it yet but I was messing around with my settings,turned off the 'MX' button(Media Expander)on the HU & was amazed at how better the system sounded.I mean everything sounds so crisp ,so clear & detailed,I'm literally hearing instruments I didn't hear b4.I guess u can say that the 'MX' button is a "Distortion' button for lack of a better word.I think I'm staying passive for now,I really like how everything sounds.
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