Considering a 2011 Tundra, how's frame quality?

[ncpaladin]

I'm thinking about getting a new truck in the coming months. The Tundra is one I'm considering.

A bit of background-

I've owned many vehicles over the past quarter century. Six of them were Toyotas. Four of the Toyotas were trucks.
The first was a 1994 T100, purchased new in '94. Kept 2 years. Never a problem with it. Replaced with a car as needs had changed.
The second was a 1985 Hilux, purchased used in 2003. Sold it in 2009. Various work done to it over those years as it had 250k+ miles. My wife laments the selling of "Clappy", and I do too.
The third was a 2006 Tacoma Xtra cab 4x4, purchased new in 2005. Kept 2 years. No problems with this truck, just quality concerns. I noticed the frame was not up to snuff compared to Clappy. When I installed a set of stainless Westin nerf bars on the Taco, I noticed the frame distorting as I cranked the bolts down. I wasn't being an ape, mind you. Just torquing the bolts down per instructions. Hmmm, weak frame. And before I sold it, I noticed the frame bolts and various other underside tidbits were starting to rust. Now Clappy had frame rust, but just on the surface of its boxed frame- the frame was solid.
The forth was a 1987 4Runner SR5, purchased used in 2007. Sold about a year later after doing some restoration work to it, as a more important project vehicle came into inventory. Again, a very solid frame on this vehicle.

Toyotas have been the only brand of trucks I have owned. Professionally (company provided) trucks have been Chevy and Ford. My current company truck is a 2000 Chevy 3500HD 6.5L diesel. Lots of problems that never get fixed.

All of the Toyota trucks I have owned were 4 cylinder models. All but the 4Runner were manual transmission equipped. Clappy and the T100 were 2WD. The Taco and 4Runner were 4WD. I performed all of the work on my trucks, so I got to know them well. I've learned the positive and negative points of these trucks.

So here it is, 2 years since Clappy left the inventory. I miss having a truck. I would like a new truck, but there are many things I am disappointed with in the current new truck market. Like the incredible lack of manual transmissions in full size trucks. Only one left is the Dodge Ram with the 6.7L Cummins diesel. The three cars in our inventory are manual transmission equipped. I have an innate distrust of automatics, simply by their design they hide problems until the problems become multi thousand dollar affairs. Especially since they now have 5 or more speeds and electronic controls. A manual transmission with a clutch tells you everything. But it seems a loosing battle on that front.
Next beef is with the growing mass of trucks and poor fuel economy, although they are far better than the old trucks when power and mass are compared. We rented a 2010 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 4.7L Quad Cab last year for a 1000 mile round trip to pick up an interior for my project car. When Enterprise rolled around the full size truck I requested, I was hoping for a 2WD Silverado (given what they rent, and knowing historical fuel consumption of the big 3), and dreading a 4x4 Dodge. Well here comes the Dodge. Shit. But after putting 1022 miles on this truck going across the Appalachians I was pleasantly surprised. We averaged 20.5 MPG (not via the trip computer, but by actual calculation.) My wife and I both liked the ride, looks, overall build quality, and economy of the Dodge. So the Dodge went to the top of the truck list for our next truck. But Chrysler's reputation and troubles precede it. The 5 speed automatic is a sore spot amongst owners. But that's about it. Too bad they stopped offering a manual...

The Ford F150 and Chevy Silverado/GMC Sierra leave me rather uninterested. The Ford due to cost and looks. The GM twins I can't bring myself to trust knowing what I know from out many, many work trucks. The Nissan Titan sucks gas like nobody's business, and ranks bottom on comparisons everywhere. That leaves the Tundra vs the Ram.

My needs in a truck are rather interesting because:
While I have an 87 mile a day trip to and from work, my wife only has a 10 mile round trip for work.
I bought a 2006 Civic sedan for my wife back in 2005. It now has about 80k on it. On the highway I will typically get 40+ MPG, again verified by calculation. (Can you tell I'm very, um, anal about the math?)
My wife's driving ability is somewhat "limited", in that her driving a full size truck may result in property damage, injury and/or death to others, and profound fear among the wildlife. Thus any full size truck I buy, and would want her to use for going to work, must have a relatively small footprint.
My preference in a truck is 4WD (given our weather), regular cab with a long bed, but a short bed would help for my wife. Good power and fuel economy relationship (i.e. a big truck with a tiny engine and low power will suck up more fuel than a proper combination.) Comfortable seats, cruise, variable intermittent wipers, A/C. Other options may be just fine, too. No oversized wheels. 18" diameter wheels are as big as I would want, due to shitty roads and my wife finding curbs the hard way. A spray in bed liner will be done.

Tundra positives:
5.7L and 6 speed auto make one fast truck.
The Tundra regular cab has gobs of room behind the seats.
Capacious bed.
Nice bucket seats.
Tundra negatives:
Regular cabs are rare as hens teeth around the midwest.
Option combinations with Toyota are weird and nonsensical. "What!? You want a factory leather wrapped wheel on a regular cab? No way. You have to get a bigger cab for that!" WTF? How thick is the leather on this wheel anyway? Get it from the parts dept? Look it up. They want somewhere near a grand for it, without the airbag. Toyota parts pricing should be investigated for reckless profiteering.
And the BIG ONE: questionable frame quality. I'm not sure about the frame's corrosion protection / steel quality / design validity.


Sooo....

Anyone have frame / underbody rust issues with their 2007+ Tundra?

Has anyone heard (and not via rumor or dealership BS) exactly what Toyota has done since the frame rust debacle to show improvements with the 2007+ frames?

While there are different schools of thought about frame designs (fully boxed vs C-channel) has anyone experienced excessive frame flexing or permanent shape change to their frame?

Sorry for the long post.

By the way, If Toyota sold the diesel 4x4 Hilux here, I would forgo the desire for a full size truck and buy it. The full size truck need comes from the lousy smaller truck selection out there, and bed capacity. I've owned the current style Tacoma, and while not a bad truck, will not do that again. It ain't no Hilux.

[arabianobsession]

I don't know too much about the frame quality, even working at a dealership I haven't heard/seen much. BUT, I do have a question for you. Are you wanting gas or diesel? Obviously the Tundra doesn't come with a diesel in the US, and I know the Cummins in the Ram is known for it's strength and long-term durability, plus getting pretty good fuel mileage.

The Tundra with the 5.7, real world gas mileage is about 15 mpg (It's rated 13 city/17 highway). Also, another thing, based on the options you would want, you're going to want an SR5 regular cab Tundra, and those are even harder to find than just the base (work truck) packaged Tundra.

[ncpaladin]

Sorry for not being clear on this. The Tundra would be a gas 5.7, the Dodge would be the Hemi gas 5.7. I like the older 5.9L Cummins diesels, they got much better mileage than the current 6.7L engines. I don't need all the pulling power of the big diesels. If Dodge only paired up the 6 speed manual to the Hemi in a 2500 4x4 Outdoorsman model...

There is currently a Tundra in inventory at Toyota of Nicholasville (Lexington, KY area, about 80 miles from me), that well equipped- Reg cab short bed, 5.7L, 4x4, Grey, bucket seats, cold weather pack, body color bumpers and fog lights, and although it is not listed, appears to have the SR5 package, as it has SR5 cloth, power windows, power locks.

I was just commenting on the perfect truck for me:

A new Hilux Diesel! Which our ever vigilant government feels it should keep me from bringing here.

If someone had a mothballed 1995 T100 regular cab, long bed SR5 4x4 3.4L 5 speed, I would be all over it.

I really want a robust, fairly simple, comfortable 4x4 truck that I can lay a sheet of plywood flat between the wheelwells. Damn, I probably need to find a T100.

[arabianobsession]

Originally Posted by ncpaladin

Sorry for not being clear on this. The Tundra would be a gas 5.7, the Dodge would be the Hemi gas 5.7. I like the older 5.9L Cummins diesels, they got much better mileage than the current 6.7L engines. I don't need all the pulling power of the big diesels. If Dodge only paired up the 6 speed manual to the Hemi in a 2500 4x4 Outdoorsman model...

There is currently a Tundra in inventory at Toyota of Nicholasville (Lexington, KY area, about 80 miles from me), that well equipped- Reg cab short bed, 5.7L, 4x4, Grey, bucket seats, cold weather pack, body color bumpers and fog lights, and although it is not listed, appears to have the SR5 package, as it has SR5 cloth, power windows, power locks.

I was just commenting on the perfect truck for me:

A new Hilux Diesel! Which our ever vigilant government feels it should keep me from bringing here.

If someone had a mothballed 1995 T100 regular cab, long bed SR5 4x4 3.4L 5 speed, I would be all over it.

I really want a robust, fairly simple, comfortable 4x4 truck that I can lay a sheet of plywood flat between the wheelwells. Damn, I probably need to find a T100.

I think you're right on the T100. I know how you feel about the diesel trucks, I've been hoping Toyota would modify their engines a bit to pass emissions over here, but to no avail so far.

At least the good news is that there is a Tundra equipped how you like near you. I don't think there's a single one like that within 300+ miles of here.

I'm hoping another member chimes in about frame sturdiness, like I said, I'm not sure, but if I have time today I'll pop in to the shop and talk to some of the techs and see what they have to say.

[Billiam]

Vmax post in 3, 2, 1......

Toyota ---> < --- Vmax

[ncpaladin]

Sorry? Never owned a Yamaha V-max, but I have owned both Honda and BMW motorcycles.

[arabianobsession]

^No, he means a fellow member who is know for his, uh, anti-Toyota feelings. :P

[93CamryLEV6]

Originally Posted by ncpaladin

Regular cabs are rare as hens teeth around the midwest.
Option combinations with Toyota are weird and nonsensical. "What!? You want a factory leather wrapped wheel on a regular cab? No way. You have to get a bigger cab for that!" WTF? How thick is the leather on this wheel anyway? Get it from the parts dept? Look it up. They want somewhere near a grand for it, without the airbag. Toyota parts pricing should be investigated for reckless profiteering.

I agree... I am about to research here, but as with many new cars now, you have to get this or that option before you can get this or that option, its crazy. I am wanting a 2011 Tundra SR5 double cab (with column shift automatic and the front bench seat, but I have only seen this configuration in the non-SR5 models. THEN, in order to get the back up camera, you have to at least get the SR5 package.... at least thats best I can figure because out of all of the 70 '11 Tundras on our local dealers lot, that is how they are equipped. THEN you have to get the top-level model to get the factory navigation. I dont know, I havent asked, but maybe if you paid for one in advance it can be special made for you?

I was also looking at the '11 Tacoma. I wanted the SR5 package, but I didnt want the leather wrapped wheel. Was also disappointed that you cant get column shift automatic on the Tacoma anymore, whereas you could on the 1995-2004 models (at least on the 2WD models).

Here too, I have yet to have personally ever seen a regular cab '07+ Tundra. I have not seen one here and there is not one on any of our local dealer lots. Probably a special order model most likely. The only one I have ever seen was in the brochure.

The brochures are not very clear on what models have what options, etc.

As far as the frame, I have not heard anyone complaining yet of them on the '07 + models, but I never seen any problems on the local '00-06 models, but I am in the southeast so rust is not a concern down here. I was reading in the Tundra brochure however that it has a "tripletech" frame. The front portion of the frame is boxed, the middle is reinforced "C" frame and the rear frame is open, which the book says it helps deal with a fully loaded suspension better.

Hopefully someone with more personal experience with one will chime in here.

[ncpaladin]

Well, I think the Tundra is out. I was very specific in my e-mail to Toyota regarding the frame questions. Even stated the inquiry was best handled by a Toyota engineer, and not to hand me some marketing dept BS. Here's the reply:


Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc., and thank you for your history of multiple Toyota vehicle ownership!

I apologize for your concern regarding Toyota's Customer Support Program for certain Tacoma and Tundra Pickups. It is important to note that this is not a recall or special service campaign.

Only certain 1995 through 2004 model year Tacoma and Tundra vehicles are eligible, as Toyota has identified a concern with the frames of these models. There are no other models eligible. Instances of this condition are isolated and largely confined to states which use salt for winter de-icing of roads.

Toyota's corrosion perforation warranty (protection against rust causing a hole in the sheetmetal through which light or water could pass) is five years, with no mileage limitation, from the vehicle's Date Of First Use (DOFU). The frame warranty is three years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Your inquiry is appreciated.

Toyota values you as a customer, and we appreciate the opportunity to address your concern. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us at http://www.toyota.com/help.


Sincerely,

James Fewel

Toyota Customer Experience
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

The guy doesn't even bother to properly read the e-mail, and then makes no mention of the 2007+ frame differences. Bloody useless schmucks.

And for anyone wondering, no, I didn't create this thread for bashing Toyota. As I had said, I've owned several of them. But thanks to my ownership experience, and what has made the public domain concerning Toyota. I know about how far I can believe them and trust them. They're kinda like that wild girl you took home from the bar back in you're early twenties. You had a great time. And hooked up with her a few more times. Until you realized she wasn't really wild. She was moderately insane. And she knew where you lived. And you worried about something bad happening. Yea. It's kinda like that.

[ncpaladin]

OK, update.

I was out running errands today, so I stopped by the Toyota dealer. I looked over 2 used Tundras (2008 Crew cab Limited, and a 2007 Double cab) and checked their underbellies. No significant rust discovered. A little bit found on various bolts, and a couple of spots on the frame where it looked like the finish was scraped off, but nothing that a regular POR-15 inspection and application wouldn't take care of. Going over the frame, I found the thickness considerably greater than that of the 2006 Tacoma 4x4 I had. That frame would probably not distort from nerf bars. So I feel better about the frame.

They had a truck I found to be appealing on the lot:

2011 Tundra double cab and 6.5' bed.
5.7L 4x4
TRD Off Road package.
Auto day night rear view mirror with backup camera.
No bedliner.
Bucket seats.
SR5 package.
Floor mats.
Uprated audio with XM.

The only thing I would want changed on it are the tires. It has the TRD package white letter BF Goodrich all terrains. I would rather them be swapped from another Tundra with the Michelin LTX A/S of the same size (which there were several of on the lot.)

After driving the truck, I must say I didn't notice a rough or jiggly ride, even with the TRD Off Road package, and we went on the bypass here (55MPH, poured concrete slab sections with various crappy repairs.) The truck is smooth and quiet. The only downside to the truck's interior is the plastics used, they are rather cheap looking. And the lack of a leather wrapped steering wheel. Hell my Tacoma had that with the SR5 package.

But, we'll see. I told the guy my wife has to test drive it first.

[Vmax2007]

Originally Posted by Billiam

Vmax post in 3, 2, 1......

Toyota ---> < --- Vmax

Gee, sorry to disappoint you Billiam.

[84Cressida]

I've never heard of any rust problems on the Tundra frames past the 2000-2003 models. Those, and the Tacoma, were due to poor rust-proofing by the frame manufacturer, Dana Corp., who shelled out $25 million to Toyota earlier this year to cover the cost of those recalled frames. That implies to me that the supplier was at fault and it appears that all frames past 2003/2004 are good.

I would join the www.tundrasolutions.com forums. There's lots of knowledgeable info on Tundras there. FWIW, there have been two Tundras in my family (an '01 and '10). My uncle has the '10 and has used it quite a bit to haul various crap in the bed and tow a 6500 lb boat every so often (piece of cake for the 5.7). Never had any problems or frame bending issues or anything like that, and since we're in CA, the thing will never rust.