Another Huge Recall, Should I buy?

[tagheuer]

We are considering replacing our 2008 VW Passat Wagon with something larger, like a 2011 Toyota Highlander since our lease is up.

I have owned Hondas, Nissans, BMWs and VWs and have had very few problems with these cars....which is a little suprising given some of their reputations. But even the German cars (BMW 325, BMW X3, BMW 328 and VW Passat have been very trouble free, with no major recalls, etc)

I want to buy a Toyota based upon price and reliability, and I have been rationalizing the recent recalls telling myself that the Highlander is still one of the most reliable vehicles out there....but I'm just not sure this is really true....the hits just keep coming.

And, unlike the Germans (when they do have their share of problems), the Toyota recalls involve major system components, i.e. brakes, master cylinders, steering shafts, etc....safety issues, etc....

Is a Toyota Highlander going to be more reliable then a German product (or domestic)? It largely seems to be hype at this point....The Germans offer a much better driving experience, better handling, etc. etc....

So what should I do? I'm looking for your advice...from experienced Toyota owners...Toyota has never really gone through something like this before...8 million cars recalled in the last year?

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NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Toyota is recalling 740,000 vehicles sold in the United States because of potentially unsafe brakes, adding to the automaker's 2010 recall woes.
Toyota Motor Sales, the U.S. division of Toyota Motor Corp. (TM) in Japan, said the recall applies to Avalon models built from 2005 through 2006, non-hybrid Highlanders from 2004 through 2006, the Lexus RX330, and 2006 models of the Lexus GS300, IS250 and IS350.

[Ed-Pa]

The recall announced today does not affect the 2010 or 2011 Highlander.

Toyotal vehicles still remain the most reliable vehicles on the market.

What is different between Toyota now and Toyota pre-acceleration incidents is faster and more disclosure as far as safety is concerned. To me that is a good thing.

I have a 2008 Highlander Base on lease that will mature in April 2011.

I plan to purchase the vehicle before April.

[lucky777]

I'm thinking that having more recalls actually better for Toyota owners in this case. In the past if Toyota would find about a problem they would resolve it on current production level but avoid to admit it publicly and issue a broad recall for all affected vehicles. So it is not that Toyota quality now is worse then it used be, they just trying to be proactive in light of all the bad recent publicity.

[05Moose]

Originally Posted by lucky777

I'm thinking that having more recalls actually better for Toyota owners in this case. In the past if Toyota would find about a problem they would resolve it on current production level but avoid to admit it publicly and issue a broad recall for all affected vehicles. So it is not that Toyota quality now is worse then it used be, they just trying to be proactive in light of all the bad recent publicity.

I agree with lucky. There are a lot of problems that Toyota has with the Tacoma too that were spread out among a lot of people (ie it was a common problem), but instead of issuing a recall they just issued a TSB (which aren't publicized, only covered the vehicle for the first 36K miles, and were only covered if you complained about the problem which is a bad move IMO). So the fact that they're actually taking a proactive step to fix the problems instead of ignoring them until you complain, well that's a good thing.

And as far as hype goes, I bet 99 percent of the recalls you're seeing are all Toyota. My wife commented on that recently, so I did some searching. Turns out many other auto manufacturers were having recalls (Ford, Chrysler, GM, etc), but none of them were making the news because Toyota is news in light of what happened recently whereas the other recalls aren't "sensational" enough to report on the news.

[tagheuer]

yeah, I'm really on the fence about this. I know Toyota recalls are newsworthy, and I would never consider getting a Chrysler product....But the GMC Acadia seems to have decent reliability too.

I'm really conflicted, I agree its a good thing Toyota is being more transparent and proactive, but still, another 740,000 cars, for leaking master brake cylinder, really?

I had stupid things go wrong with my German cars, like radio, power windows, etc....

The Highlander is still my first choice, but boy oh boy, I'm really taking a hard look at Honda, Nissan, Ford and even another BMW crossover.

Before it was a no brainer, I would have just bought the Toyota, no questions asked, and expected 150,000 trouble free miles.

[05Moose]

I hear ya. I've tried the other manufacturers and they've got their problems too. My father-in-law has a Ford F350 which most people will tell you have almost no problems at all. But he's had problems with sudden acceleration (almost caused them to crash but you obviously only hear about Toyota's "sudden acceleration" problems and not Ford's), thumping noises in the suspension, and he's always had electrical and transmission problems with all his Fords. But then you'll probably find others that don't have any problems at all. We've got friends with a Tahoe that has been fairly trouble-free over the years...until now. But you'll find the same things in cases with Toyota vehicles too. There will be some people with lots of problems and then others with almost zero problems. Remember too that most of those "reliability" statistics are based on x number of problems per 100 vehicles reported in the first 12 months. I think most vehicles are good for the first 12 months, but it's the long term where more problems arise. Spend more up front for a Toyota and have less problems over time, or buy domestic for less money and have more problems over time. In the end, you pay the same amount (but one has the hassle of more repairs).

[MikeyD25]

Before making a decision one way or another read this: http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...ly-177010.aspx

In this case it seems that the use of aftermarket brake fluid is the cause of the master cylinder seals leaking. Could it be that Toyota's OEM brake fluid is of a higher grade/quality than the aftermarket brands? Most, if not all new car manuals state to use only OEM fluids, with the exception of motor oil of course, in the new vehicle.

I am also concerned with Toyota's quality! I think it's very wise to ask questions and do research, but I will not jump to any conclusions until I'm completely satisfied that Toyota has done everything possible to rectify (no pun intended) the problems.

MD

[tagheuer]

Originally Posted by MikeyD25

Before making a decision one way or another read this: http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...ly-177010.aspx

In this case it seems that the use of aftermarket brake fluid is the cause of the master cylinder seals leaking. Could it be that Toyota's OEM brake fluid is of a higher grade/quality than the aftermarket brands? Most, if not all new car manuals state to use only OEM fluids, with the exception of motor oil of course, in the new vehicle.

I am also concerned with Toyota's quality! I think it's very wise to ask questions and do research, but I will not jump to any conclusions until I'm completely satisfied that Toyota has done everything possible to rectify (no pun intended) the problems.

MD

I noticed that, and if true, its a big point in favor of Toyota. I'm just not sure I would trust them 100%, after their coverup and receiving the largest fine in history....

I usually tend to use OEM fluids...but this is a little scary using non-OEM fluids could cause loss of braking force...

[Zembonez]

Toyotal vehicles still remain the most reliable vehicles on the market.

While the above quote is a major stretch made by someone who is obviously a Toyota fan, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Toyota product if there is one that fills your needs. All manufacturers have issues (and recalls). The media is making Toyota an example right now and making sure that every recall gets major coverage...

[lucky777]

I owned a Honda Accord before and had read on multiple boards to use only Honda OEM AT/Cooling/Braking fluids. Honda used to have major problem with their transmissions when non OEM fluid was used. There had been many transmission recalls and TSBs on Honda vehicles. I used only OEM fluids and never had any issue. I'd rather stick with OEM fluids from now on.

[05Moose]

Originally Posted by tagheuer

I'm just not sure I would trust them 100%, after their coverup and receiving the largest fine in history....

Sorry, but I'm going to rant a little on that statement.

See that's where the media and the government are swindling you. There wasn't really a cover up because there really wasn't anything wrong with the vehicles. What was wrong was people not using their brains. Go buy 5 floor mats and stack them in your VW and then floor the gas pedal until it gets stuck on the floor mats. Get enough people doing it and you now can go to the Government and they'll force VW to recall all vehicles to shorten the gas pedals even more and provide you warnings not to stack floor mats. Does that really make sense to you? Because that's exactly the situation, and they got fined because they didn't automatically recall all their vehicles to deal with people stacking floor mats.

Some even suggest it was just a case of Toyota getting blamed by another car manufacturer in an attempt to lower Toyota sales and increase theirs (we're talking about the US Government, owner of GM).

I can tell you right now that the gas pedal in my Tacoma as it came from the factory was already short and could not have caught on my floor mats (I stack a costco floor mat on top of the factory carpet floor mats but my costco mats don't slide around and are trimmed around the foot rest preventing them from sliding forward). With my pedal now trimmed, I could stack 4 of them and not have a problem! The pedal is now mainly pushed by the ball of my foot and my toes because it's so short. Ask anyone on the forums if they thought their pedal really was too close to the floor and what they thought of the whole escapade by congress and the media, you'll get the same answer.

But at least we're all benefiting from it because Toyota now has PR issues as a result of it. Shoot, I got a better deal on our 2010 HL with 2 years free maintenance all because of the media.

Now if you took all past history and decided not to trust someone, then you can also forget Honda. They lost a class action lawsuit because their odometers were recording higher miles than actually traveled shortening your warranty. Can you trust them now? Then there's the case with GM, or the case with Ford, or the case with Chrysler, etc, etc, etc. Basically, don't believe everything you hear in the media because they really like to sensationalize things and don't always portray the facts because the facts are boring, whereas a good story gets attention.

[tagheuer]

I agree there are always two sides to the story, but there WERE documents indicating that Toyota was aware of potential unintended acceleration issues and ignored them and/or failed to report them as they were required to do under US law.

I'm really neutral about the issue, I'm a litigation lawyer, I don't work for any particular auto company, I buy both domestic and import cars (including europeans, etc.)

I'll probably still buy a Toyota, I'm just wondering if they aren't as reliable as they're made out to be. The poster above attacks the statement "Toyota's are still the most reliable cars around"

If they aren't, then what ARE the most reliable cars?

[Zembonez]

My "attack" as you put it was not a knock on Toyota, but a poke at the guy making such a sweeping statement. Fact is, NO carmaker is the best at everything. All have their issues.

I haven't seen a single brand that builds a new dealership without a service/repair department.

[lucky777]

After all these months researching Toyota's unintended acceleration phenomena NTHSA doesn't have anything to show to the public. I've been telling all along that this is a non issue blown out of proportion by the media.

[MikeyD25]

Originally Posted by tagheuer

I'll probably still buy a Toyota, I'm just wondering if they aren't as reliable as they're made out to be. The poster above attacks the statement "Toyota's are still the most reliable cars around"

If they aren't, then what ARE the most reliable cars?

I leased an '06 Highlander V6 AWD (see my signature) and in February of 2008 I was involved in an accident with it. The front end was damaged to the tune of $13,000.00 so it was no small fender bender. I drove that vehicle for another 11 months without any issues, I returned it in January of '09. I would have bought it but Toyota wouldn't deal on it.

My point, if I felt that Toyota's quality was an issue back then I wouldn't have tried to buy it outright, number one and I wouldn't have leased a second Toyota vehicle, number two! In those 11 months I did not notice anything amiss with any other part of that Highlander including the alignment. While some might credit the body shop - which I do, I have to give credit to Toyota for making a vehicle that didn't fall apart down the road even if it did come with a strut tower bar!

MD