I am about to purchase a 2011Highlander but in the test drive my wife found herself trapped in the passenger side seat belt. On checking ALL the cars in the showroom I noted a very distinct difference between the behavior of the driver and the passenger.
The drivers side works as I would assume it should.. it can be withdrawn to its full length. Any sudden pull will activate the "latch" and when loosened it will unlatch and allow total freedom. On the passenger side it does NOT work this way.. If you withdraw it substantially (guessing 60%) when you latch it by a sudden pull it will not release. It will continue to be in the ratchet mode until it is almost spooled all the way.. at which point it can be extended again.
For a large person this is totally unsatisfactory.. my wife could only undo the buckle.. put up with the nagging chime or travel trapped in the seat belt for the duration of the test drive.
Any thoughts.. solutions? All the product advisors at this dealership were quite surprised by this difference which seemed common to all the vehicles with various degrees of severity. Possibly only an issue with larger passengers but one that needs a solution before I purchase.
My Wife is experiencing the exact same problem and I'll tell you she's hot about this, already talking trade-in and the vehicle is a 8/10 build 2010. Wife is not a large person. We are in a situation where we can't get the vehicle in to be looked at for a while so please let us know your findings.
Currently have 14k on it...
Motoretro
This is a totally incredible situation and I do not understand why there is no resolution to a very black and white situation. The drivers side is different from the passenger side in all Toyota models I checked.. Why? And to have the passenger (and presumably back seat passengers) "ratcheted" in tight may be cute but not very comfortable.
With the limited checking I have done.. Every passenger side seat belt, when extended close to all the way.. if allowed to latch, by a sudden pull.. will not release and continue ratcheting. The only way that will let it release (extend) is to let it withdraw to almost its entire rolled up state. Which would require taking the seat belt off.. letting it withdraw and then re securing it. But.. the catch 22.. when it is withdrawn again you have a good chance of re activating the latch.
The reason for the difference is because passenger belt is designed to be used with a child seat. When used with a child seat, it will hold the child seat securely in place, much better then an inertia-activated seat belt like the driver's one. Back seat belts have the same function.
You will find the same feature in every Honda or Ford. Not sure about other brands, but I suspect that most cars today are this way. It's clearly explained in the owner's manual (but who needs to read a stupid manual, right?).
It's a safety feature and should not be tampered with.
The seat belts are designed for normally-sized people and anybody who is reasonably height-weight proportionate won't have any problem. For excessively obese people you can always add a seat belt extender.
I also own a 09 Tacoma and this belt lock-up issue is not apparent in this truck. Also I've spent quite a bit of time in the 2010 Honda Element & Crosstour along with the 2010 Ford Escape with no notice of belt lock-up. There appears to be (2) retractor modes on the H/L, ELR & ALR. The ELR allows you to move around in the seat slowly w/o lock-up and the ALR is for a Child Restraint System.
Motoretro
Quote:
Originally Posted by katekebo
The reason for the difference is because passenger belt is designed to be used with a child seat. When used with a child seat, it will hold the child seat securely in place, much better then an inertia-activated seat belt like the driver's one. Back seat belts have the same function.
You will find the same feature in every Honda or Ford. Not sure about other brands, but I suspect that most cars today are this way. It's clearly explained in the owner's manual (but who needs to read a stupid manual, right?).
It's a safety feature and should not be tampered with.
The seat belts are designed for normally-sized people and anybody who is reasonably height-weight proportionate won't have any problem. For excessively obese people you can always add a seat belt extender.
The reason for the difference is because passenger belt is designed to be used with a child seat. When used with a child seat, it will hold the child seat securely in place, much better then an inertia-activated seat belt like the driver's one. Back seat belts have the same function.
The child seat thing makes sense.. Except that I was under the impression that to have a child seat in the front is somewhat dangerous due to the possibility of getting smacked with an air bag. I take it that there is a air bag "off" switch someplace on the HL
The child seat thing makes sense.. Except that I was under the impression that to have a child seat in the front is somewhat dangerous due to the possibility of getting smacked with an air bag. I take it that there is a air bag "off" switch someplace on the HL
You're absolutely right, it's dangerous to put a child seat in the front seat, but people still do it. Most (perhaps all) Toyotas use a load-cell in the front passenger seat to detect the weight and control passenger air bag operation accordingly. The also use "smart" air bags that are deployed with different strength / speed depending on two inputs:
- the weight of the person
- the deceleration (severity) of the impact
Under certain weight (don't know the exact number, but probably somewhere around 100 lb) the air bag is completely deactivated. Above that weight the airbag is enabled.
In addition to air bags, the system controls the belt tensioners (most modern cars have them). The belt tensioner tightens the seat belt (using explosives, just as the air bags) based on the same two inputs (person's weight and severity of the impact). The tensioner is built into the buckle support and effectively shortens the belt by 5-10 cm in case of an accident, taking out any slack and pushing you more firmly into the seat.
Thanks.. I was just talking to the shop foreman at one of the dealers on this very issue. I would like to know a bit more about Motoretro's point of "There appears to be (2) retractor modes on the H/L, ELR & ALR. The ELR allows you to move around in the seat slowly w/o lock-up and the ALR is for a Child Restraint System."
Is this a local setting? different part? Anyone with more info on this?
Thanks.. I was just talking to the shop foreman at one of the dealers on this very issue. I would like to know a bit more about Motoretro's point of "There appears to be (2) retractor modes on the H/L, ELR & ALR. The ELR allows you to move around in the seat slowly w/o lock-up and the ALR is for a Child Restraint System."
Is this a local setting? different part? Anyone with more info on this?
I checked my wife's H/L out today, w/o weight in the passenger seat I fully extended the seat belt and then backed off just a bit to allow the ALR mode to lock the belt. I noticed just before gaining full extension there was a ratcheting noise, My wife had noticed this sound during regular belt use. I feel the ALR mode was being applied during regular driving. I then allowed the belt to fully retract slowly, still with no weight in the seat, I did this twice. I then sat in the seat and applied the belt in normal manner. I checked the tension w/ quick jerk and normal resistance was apparent. I did this several times with same results. No lock-up of the belt was apparent. We took a 45 mile drive tonight and belt tension remained fine, allowing you to move normally in seat w/o lock-up of belt like before. Will monitor and report if issue returns.
Motoretro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph6410
Thanks.. I was just talking to the shop foreman at one of the dealers on this very issue. I would like to know a bit more about Motoretro's point of "There appears to be (2) retractor modes on the H/L, ELR & ALR. The ELR allows you to move around in the seat slowly w/o lock-up and the ALR is for a Child Restraint System."
Is this a local setting? different part? Anyone with more info on this?
Thanks for checking this out for me. I am thinking that the two modes ALR and ELR select themselves depending whether there is an occupant in the seat or not. Perhaps this is why on every vehicle I checked in the show room.. and not sitting in the seat.. went to a full ratchet / lock. The behavior I noted would be correct (according to Toyota engineers) if one wanted to secure a child seat.
It still creates a problem for a passenger that is larger than the Toyota crash dummy.. but I have been informed a seat belt extension will resolve the issue. not my first choice but perhaps my only choice.
To follow this up with some facts. It seems that very few showroom sales people know their product very well and that a lot of consumers are needlessly frustrated. As mentioned by Motoretro seat belts (other than the driver) have two modes ELR and ALR. From http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo...eat-belts.html I have found this.. which seems to explain it pretty well.
Emergency Locking Retractor (ELR) function allows the occupant to have free movement while buckled up, but in an emergency situation or crash the retractor instantly locks securing the occupant. This is accomplished by an inertia reel with which all of our retractable replacement seat belts are equipped. The inertia reel is "webbing sensitive," meaning that any sudden movement of the webbing (the seat belt strap) causes the retractor to instantly lock.
Automatic Locking Retractor (ALR) function allows the user to lock the retractor at a set position (also called child restraint mode) used for securing child seats. ALR mode is activated by extending the retractor all the way out until a "click" is heard, next let the seat belt (webbing) retract into the retractor to the desired length and stop the belt at that point. The retractor locks and will not let the belt lengthen at that point (only retract). To cancel ALR mode and return the retractor to the ELR mode, just let the retractor retract the webbing all the way back into the retractor.
When a person either in error or because of size pulls the strap our all the way they automatically go into the ALR mode and the belt will "only" retract. While I can understand the logic and benefit of being able to use the seat belt to firmly tie something to the seat it makes for an impractical "normal" situation.
I have yet to pick up my HL and we will have to see how impractical this ALR function is. I may have use special tool SP3200234XT to modify this behavior.
Ralph,
Thanks for the follow up. I have not had any additional issues w/ the belt, in fact I've discovered how the lock-up became activated. Currently have 14.2K on our 2010 in 8 months w/ no other issues other than a occasional squeak in dash which seems to disappear in warmer temps.
Good luck if you purchase.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
ToyotaNation.com is an independent Toyota/Lexus enthusiast website. ToyotaNation.com is not sponsored by or in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. The Toyota, Lexus and Scion names and logos are trademarks owned by Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.
Passenger side seat belt issues
Currently have 14.2K on our 2010 in 8 months w/ no other issues other than a occasional squeak in dash which seems to disappear in warmer temps.
Linear Mode
