Stuck in the sand today. Anything to do other than turning off VSC/Traction Control?

[sohcrates]

Got into some pretty deep soft sand today in the Outer Banks and got stuck pretty good with my 2011 Highlander Limited V6 4WD

It was weird though. It was handling great but when i started to get stuck only the front wheels were turning. I held down the traction control button and both traction and VSC went "off" according to the dash lights. However, i still couldn't get the rear wheels to turn.

Ended up having a friendly F350 tow me out but I am a little disappointed. Some dealer service guy on the phone told me i should "lock my differential" but i'm 99% sure he had no idea what he was talking about.

Guess i don't know my 4WD/AWD well enough but it seems all 4 wheels should at least try to spin? Is there anything else i should have disabled?

I had quite a bit of luck btw *before* i got stuck getting through most of the beach.

[sweeneyp]

Originally Posted by sohcrates

Got into some pretty deep soft sand today in the Outer Banks and got stuck pretty good with my 2011 Highlander Limited V6 4WD

It was weird though. It was handling great but when i started to get stuck only the front wheels were turning. I held down the traction control button and both traction and VSC went "off" according to the dash lights. However, i still couldn't get the rear wheels to turn.

Ended up having a friendly F350 tow me out but I am a little disappointed. Some dealer service guy on the phone told me i should "lock my differential" but i'm 99% sure he had no idea what he was talking about.

Guess i don't know my 4WD/AWD well enough but it seems all 4 wheels should at least try to spin? Is there anything else i should have disabled?

I had quite a bit of luck btw *before* i got stuck getting through most of the beach.

the 4WD system on the highlander is not quite like other SUV's. Normal 4WD or AWD send power to a transfer case, which has 2 drive shafts coming out one to the font and one to the rear. That way the power can get to both front and rear axles. The highlander 4WD is predominately FWD, but when traction is broken loose the front brakes are applied to allow some of the torque to be sent to the rear wheels. The power sent to the rear wheels depend on the condition of the front tires. They are not given dedicated power like on an AWD or 4WD. I have yet to see all 4 wheels spin on a 4wd system like this at the same time (on highlander or rav4).
Though I could be wrong, hopefully some1 else will comment and correct me if im mistaken (as my highlander is only FWD)

EDIT: also I was under the impression that the highlander didn't have a lockable differential since it wasnt a true 4WD system... Not sure what the dealer guy was talking about, unless he was referring to sequoia, 4runner, and land cruiser which do have a lockable differential (along with a real 4WD system)

[TrailDust]

Originally Posted by sohcrates

Got into some pretty deep soft sand today in the Outer Banks and got stuck pretty good with my 2011 Highlander Limited V6 4WD

It was weird though. It was handling great but when i started to get stuck only the front wheels were turning. I held down the traction control button and both traction and VSC went "off" according to the dash lights. However, i still couldn't get the rear wheels to turn.

Ended up having a friendly F350 tow me out but I am a little disappointed. Some dealer service guy on the phone told me i should "lock my differential" but i'm 99% sure he had no idea what he was talking about.

Guess i don't know my 4WD/AWD well enough but it seems all 4 wheels should at least try to spin? Is there anything else i should have disabled?

I had quite a bit of luck btw *before* i got stuck getting through most of the beach.

Your experience is why I turn off VSC/TRAC before getting into sand in order to avoid bogging down and getting stuck. I've never been stuck once, and I've traveled through some pretty deep, loose sand in desert washes. Next time turn the systems off early and air your tires down to at least 25 PSI, and preferably 18-20.

[organ]

...apply the brakes somewhat while you use the gas. Not all the way, just enough to create resistance. Of course have VSC off while you do this. VSC seems incapable of reacting when more than one tire loses traction. And I'll also repeat the airing down comment above.

So you may ask why using the brake helps. Because you don't have a locking differential (there are only a handful of SUVs that do), overall torque is limited to the easiest wheel to turn. Applying your brakes creates resistance (torque requires resistance), thus allowing other wheels to have some torque applied to them however small that amount may be. This won't get you out of every jam, but its something old-timers used before LSD, traction control, lockers, etc.

I'm told the "sand" mode on range rovers works on a similar principle. When stuck it applies the brakes to 3 wheels at a time, rotating the free wheel around rapidly so that each tire has a chance to move the vehicle forward. At least that's the story I've heard.

[Ralph6410]

Does the 2011 HL not have a brake over ride feature? From what I understand if you step on the brake.. and the gas.. you only get brake. I thought the system was supposed to sense the spinning wheel.. apply brake to it alone thus forcing the torque to other wheels. Not much of a AWD system if only ONE wheel spins.

[organ]

Very good point! I hadn't thought of that, but after the run-away Toyota issues a while back I suspect you are right about the override in newer computers. I miss the days when one could actually drive their own car.

[05Moose]

Originally Posted by Ralph6410

Does the 2011 HL not have a brake over ride feature? From what I understand if you step on the brake.. and the gas.. you only get brake. I thought the system was supposed to sense the spinning wheel.. apply brake to it alone thus forcing the torque to other wheels. Not much of a AWD system if only ONE wheel spins.

No, that's not quite how it works. You have to be over a certain speed and there are other factors before it will actually kick in. I posted the info on the Taco forum, I'll see if I can find it and place the link to it here too.

EDIT:
I attached Toyota's informational sheet in this link:
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd...ml#post2647628

Here's a summary of the basics.
The brake override system will work under these conditions...
1. Speed must be over 5 MPH,
2. Throttle must be open more than 1/3, and
3. Brake must be firmly applied. Note: If brake is applied before throttle, brake override does not engage.

Only when all of these factors are met will it actually override the throttle.

[MikeyD25]

You might want to look into this if you're gonna drive in the sand: http://www.maxtrax.com.au/

MD

[TrailDust]

Originally Posted by MikeyD25

You might want to look into this if you're gonna drive in the sand: http://www.maxtrax.com.au/

MD

Those would work. I carry a number of two-foot sections of 2x4 wood, a shovel, and a hand ax to chop up brush if needed. I've never had to get myself unstuck, but I've lent a hand to some 2-wheel SUVs that bogged themselves down in deep sand. Main thing is to air your tires down, maintain forward motion and steady throttle control, and with the Highlander turn off VSC/TRAC ahead of time so that the engine doesn't dethrottle on you like it does on ice or thick snow. Heck, I've seen Jeeps and other 4x4s get stuck up to their axles in sand because the driver figured he/she could just put it into four-wheel drive if they got stuck. Sometimes you get in too deep and can't get out after the fact, so dang it put your 4x4 into at least high-range ahead of time.

[nickhl]

Originally Posted by sweeneyp

the 4WD system on the highlander is not quite like other SUV's. Normal 4WD or AWD send power to a transfer case, which has 2 drive shafts coming out one to the font and one to the rear. That way the power can get to both front and rear axles. The highlander 4WD is predominately FWD, but when traction is broken loose the front brakes are applied to allow some of the torque to be sent to the rear wheels. The power sent to the rear wheels depend on the condition of the front tires. They are not given dedicated power like on an AWD or 4WD. I have yet to see all 4 wheels spin on a 4wd system like this at the same time (on highlander or rav4).
Though I could be wrong, hopefully some1 else will comment and correct me if im mistaken (as my highlander is only FWD)

EDIT: also I was under the impression that the highlander didn't have a lockable differential since it wasnt a true 4WD system... Not sure what the dealer guy was talking about, unless he was referring to sequoia, 4runner, and land cruiser which do have a lockable differential (along with a real 4WD system)

Although HL AWD doesn't have a lockable center differential, it's not using the trendy on demand F/Awd system like RAV4/Murano/CRV/almost crossover these days. The old fashion system power has higher fuel consumption but it's sending power to all 4 wheels all the time, that's why it's far superior than F/Awd cars on snow/slippery surface.

Because power is always sent to all 4 wheels, you will notice the following:
1) on snow/slippery surface you can actually power slide and kick the tail out with throttle just like a rwd car because the rear wheels always get power regardless of what the front wheels are doing.

2) when you park/reverse an AWD HL and hit the curb with one/both rear wheels, you can feel rear wheel pulling/pushing the car instead of doing nothing like FWD or F/Awd cars.

[organ]

All that stuff is really just marketing the same old technologies. The "power split equally" claim is just a spin on the first and most basic 4WD system: open differentials. Splitting "power" (more accurately torque) to all wheels is actually the least desirable configuration and in fact one of the functions of VSC is to apply brakes in order to manipulate torque output. Most of the "on demand" 4WD systems are technologies decades old as well (exception of perhaps SH-AWD).

There are plenty of threads on this subject, so I simply refer to them, as well as this link on several common 4WD systems.

http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...tion_4wd_2.htm

[AXMACD]

I did the same thing last fall. I was driving on grass that turned out to be really soft, figured I probably shouldn't drive on it, stopped the car... I was done. 3 big guys couldn't push it out so I had to call roadside (who didn't help me) and a tow-truck.

[MikeyD25]

Here's how Toyota explains their AWD/4WD systems to their staff! Click on the link to learn: http://www.majormedia2.com/4WDSimplifiedv5/4WD.html

MD

[HLanderR]

My highlander performed admirably in the Great Sand Dunes National Park (CO), where a "high-clearance 4WD vehicle" is required. I suggest lowering/removing the spare tire and placing it in the cargo area in the rear of the vehicle when more ground clearance is required. Yes, I got stuck once due to the spare tire plowing the hot sand. Other than the minor inconvenience of moving the spare and lowering air pressure, the HL crossover hung in there powering through deep sand, fording stream crossings, and taking rocky hills with the rest of the boys in their older truck framed vehicles. Deep sand and snow are places where you will be happy with your full-time AWD HL over smaller SUVs with an electro-magnetic clutch center differential. With steady power application, there is plenty of friction in the HL's open differentials to make it through the deep stuff.

Cheers,

[TrailDust]

^

Based on experience, what he said.