I like absolutely everything about my new base 2011 Highlander (with tech package and power seat).... except the driver's seat. Unless I sit very carefully and pay constant attention to posture and relaxation, I end up with a very uncomfortable back after about 30 minutes. It is worse on longer trips. I have seen other threads about similar issues with other Toyota seats but no solutions. Interestingly, I had the same problem with my 1994 Camry, but it slowly went away after a year or two. In between those two vehicles, I had a Buick Rendezvous for 8 years and had no issues with the seat at all. Over the years I have owned many vehicles and my two Toyotas have been the only ones where I had back issues.
This morning I decided to do some investigation. First, I experimented with a towel wedged into the intersection of the seat back and bottom. That made it MUCH more comfortable. It seems as though the seat back curves away from you as it intersects the bottom and at least the way I am built, that encourages my spine to bend backwards slightly and it is uncomfortable.
I then took the seat cover partially off to look inside the seat. This is easier than you think.... the rear of the upper seat cover is hooked to a wire frame with two elastic straps. Unhook them and fold the flap up. That reveals three wire rings that fasten the rear of the seat cover to the front. I bent them and removed them. There are also two zippers.... unzip them. Now the entire seat back cover can be lifted, revealing the interior of the seat.
There is a mechanism near the intersection of the seat back and bottom that seems to raise the headrest when you press it towards the rear of the vehicle. I assume it has something to do with raising the headrest if you are pushed backwards in a crash? In any event, it does not normally touch the seat padding, leaving the void that hurts my back. So I tried a crude fix.... I put an approximately 8" piece of 1/2" oak between the mechanism and the seat cushion. It seems to do the trick, but I'll have to drive it a bit to be sure. Not sure if I will find the headrest raised, but if I do I will probably just deactivate the mechanism.... it seems superfluous if I keep the headrest in the right position to begin with.
If this is really the cure, I'll see about posting pictures.
I like absolutely everything about my new base 2011 Highlander (with tech package and power seat).... except the driver's seat. Unless I sit very carefully and pay constant attention to posture and relaxation, I end up with a very uncomfortable back after about 30 minutes. It is worse on longer trips. I have seen other threads about similar issues with other Toyota seats but no solutions. Interestingly, I had the same problem with my 1994 Camry, but it slowly went away after a year or two. In between those two vehicles, I had a Buick Rendezvous for 8 years and had no issues with the seat at all. Over the years I have owned many vehicles and my two Toyotas have been the only ones where I had back issues.
This morning I decided to do some investigation. First, I experimented with a towel wedged into the intersection of the seat back and bottom. That made it MUCH more comfortable. It seems as though the seat back curves away from you as it intersects the bottom and at least the way I am built, that encourages my spine to bend backwards slightly and it is uncomfortable.
I then took the seat cover partially off to look inside the seat. This is easier than you think.... the rear of the upper seat cover is hooked to a wire frame with two elastic straps. Unhook them and fold the flap up. That reveals three wire rings that fasten the rear of the seat cover to the front. I bent them and removed them. There are also two zippers.... unzip them. Now the entire seat back cover can be lifted, revealing the interior of the seat.
There is a mechanism near the intersection of the seat back and bottom that seems to raise the headrest when you press it towards the rear of the vehicle. I assume it has something to do with raising the headrest if you are pushed backwards in a crash? In any event, it does not normally touch the seat padding, leaving the void that hurts my back. So I tried a crude fix.... I put an approximately 8" piece of 1/2" oak between the mechanism and the seat cushion. It seems to do the trick, but I'll have to drive it a bit to be sure. Not sure if I will find the headrest raised, but if I do I will probably just deactivate the mechanism.... it seems superfluous if I keep the headrest in the right position to begin with.
If this is really the cure, I'll see about posting pictures.
Anyone else have a sore back?
Paul
I don't get it after 30 min, but if I'm driving over 2 hours I usually do in the highlander compared to other cars. I think its the same thing you are talking about, at the very lower back there is little to no support. I usually have the lumbar support sticking out almost to the max to support my back. I've found that usually helps. The mechanism you are talking about must be the active headrest, where the headrest moves toward the driver in the event of a crash. Do you notice the piece of wood in the chair when your sitting in it, or is there enough padding between the back seat cushion and the wood? Sounds like you found a simple solutions
Thanks,
Patrick
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2008 Black Highlander Limited FWD
Nav (with override), Rear DVD | 900+ Watt Sound System | Headlight & Fog HID Projector Retrofit | LED Interior/Puddle Lights | Rattletrap Sound Deadener | Dueler HL Alenzas 255/55R19's |Updated Modification List
Just throwing in some two cents, but I find the reverse is true with my Highlander. My seat is so comfortable I've driven it at stretches up to 7 hours straight without discomfort. I can't say that for my Avalon, but my Highlander is the most comfortable vehicle I've owned.
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2008 Highlander Base 4WD
2002 Avalon XL
1987 Suzuki Samurai 4X4 - Treading where no Jeep can follow....
I don't get it after 30 min, but if I'm driving over 2 hours I usually do in the highlander compared to other cars. I think its the same thing you are talking about, at the very lower back there is little to no support. I usually have the lumbar support sticking out almost to the max to support my back. I've found that usually helps. The mechanism you are talking about must be the active headrest, where the headrest moves toward the driver in the event of a crash. Do you notice the piece of wood in the chair when your sitting in it, or is there enough padding between the back seat cushion and the wood? Sounds like you found a simple solutions
Thanks,
Patrick
No, I do not notice the wood at all. However, so far I have only sat in it. I have not actually driven it. But it feels a lot more comfortable with the block in place. There is some padding between the wood and the seat cover but I suspect in a year or two the padding may form around the wood and get uncomfortable. If this really is the solution, I plan on fabricating something more permanent. Something like the wood black for spacing and a piece of hard plastic over that, extending left and right to make a gradual transition from the wood to nothing.
I wonder if the issue is due to the active headrest mechanism..... since it is apparently supposed to be activated when your body slides rearward in a rear end collision, there are no springs or support in that area. That leaves the void that your spine curves into.
I also have access to a company full of automotive seat designers who may find this an interesting project. I don't think they did the Toyota seats, so this might be a good "competitive analysis" for them.
But either way, I really think I have found the problem and there is a solution. The only thing I am not sure about is the active headrest mechanism.... the wood block is up against it and would tend to make the headrest deploy early in a crash. Probably not a problem.
Re: the lumbar support..... I find it is intensely uncomfortable in anything except the fully retracted position. I don't know who they had in mind when they positioned it but I am 5' 5" and it hits me well above my "lumbar" region. That said, with the wood block in place I find it can be deployed slightly and it makes the seat a bit more comfortable still.
I wonder what Toyota would say if I lodged a formal complaint about the seat. I expect it would be "too bad, so sad, your bad". A pity because it is a really nice car and the seat did not show up as an issue during the several test drives.
Just throwing in some two cents, but I find the reverse is true with my Highlander. My seat is so comfortable I've driven it at stretches up to 7 hours straight without discomfort. I can't say that for my Avalon, but my Highlander is the most comfortable vehicle I've owned.
Out of curiosity, how big are you? I am 5' 5" and about average placement of beltline. I suspect that taller / bigger people might not notice the seat like I do because they fit the contour of the seat bottom / back interface better. Part of it may be specific to me.... my GF doesn't notice the discomfort that I do although she (like me) says the passenger seat is more comfortable than the driver's seat.
Just throwing in some two cents, but I find the reverse is true with my Highlander. My seat is so comfortable I've driven it at stretches up to 7 hours straight without discomfort. I can't say that for my Avalon, but my Highlander is the most comfortable vehicle I've owned.
Same here. I find the Highlander seats comfy especially if I adjust the lumbar support. But when my wife uses it and adjusts the seat then I have to find the perfect seat posiion when I drive it. I wished it has memory seats.
Out of curiosity, how big are you? I am 5' 5" and about average placement of beltline. I suspect that taller / bigger people might not notice the seat like I do because they fit the contour of the seat bottom / back interface better. Part of it may be specific to me.... my GF doesn't notice the discomfort that I do although she (like me) says the passenger seat is more comfortable than the driver's seat.
Paul
Paul, I'm a hair under 5' 7". Don't know if this makes any difference, but I like my driver seat position way back, so far in fact that a couple friends I have that are both 6' 4" don't have to move the seat back. Maybe that changes the angle on my lower back?
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2008 Highlander Base 4WD
2002 Avalon XL
1987 Suzuki Samurai 4X4 - Treading where no Jeep can follow....
I dunno.... maybe it has more to do with body shape than size?
I have now driven it with the added support and it does indeed make a big difference. Not sure if this is the final solution, but it is a very good start. If anyone else wants to try it, be warned that it might interfere with the active headrest feature. If I end up revisiting my wood block I'll take pictures.
I just bought the 2011 and have made 2 four hour trips, 2 three hour trips and 2 eight hour trips already. The seat bothered me only on the 8 hour trips but most seats will for that long a period. I found that the lumbar support was too high and hit me almost in the middle of the back - so I leave it off. I am going to try a towel or small pillow for the next trip. My Murano wasn't this bad but I did have an ML320 Benz that was the same way. I think it has to do with the firmness of the seat. I have had other cars with similar issues and other cars with none. For example, the best 2 cars I have owned for seat comfort was a Corvette and a Volvo. They both had VERY comfortable seats that i could sit in for hours and hours. But, they were not pleasant to drive in other areas. So, there always seems to be a tradeoff.
I am 6 feet and have a fairly wide back and shoulders. Sometimes I think they make the seats for women instead of men - Wish Lazy Boy made car seats.
It's funny.... just sitting in it for a couple minutes, it seems very comfortable. But before I modified it, after maybe 30 minutes on the road I would find that I was scrunched over to one side and compensating for the "hole" in the rear seatback support by getting tense. I figure someone who is larger or has a slightly different body shape than I do might never be bothered.
Yeah, too bad someone like a good chair manufacturer doesn't collaborate with an automotive supplier to come up with a better seat. It seems to be worse these days because many automotive seats have far less padding and require you to conform to them instead of the other way round.
Car seats have evolved a lot over the past few years. In the past, car seats were designed for comfort. Today, car seats are designed for safety. They are designed to provide the best possible support in a rear end crash, and control the body position / movement in a front and side crash. Unfortunately, like any engineered product, this results on compromises, and comfort is one of them. If you look at rear-end crash dynamic safety tests of pre-2008 car seats, the vast majority of them score "poor". Most 2010 and newer seats score "good".
Yeah, I understand. But what is the point of making my seat safer if I can't stand to sit in it for a long trip. The only bebefit would be that it would never injure me..... because I would never be IN it
I had a conversation today with someone who was familiar with active headrests and seat safety and he pointed out that my wood block might be a safety issue in a crash because it potentially removes about 3/4" of rearward travel in a rear end collision. I still think the solution involves more support in that area so I will see about re-making it out of hard foam instead of wood.
Car seats have evolved a lot over the past few years. In the past, car seats were designed for comfort. Today, car seats are designed for safety. They are designed to provide the best possible support in a rear end crash, and control the body position / movement in a front and side crash. Unfortunately, like any engineered product, this results on compromises, and comfort is one of them. If you look at rear-end crash dynamic safety tests of pre-2008 car seats, the vast majority of them score "poor". Most 2010 and newer seats score "good".
Not to be argumentative but I don't necessarily agree that safety and comfort would be mutually exclusive goals. For example, race car seats by function must be mutually "inclusive".
Drove it 40 miles today with the wood block in place. Very comfortable. I didn't need to squirm once!
However, I decided to re-do it with some closed cell foam to eliminate the possibility of the block hurting me in a rear end collision. Here are two photos, one without any extra spacer and one with the foam. The active headrest mechanism is the device with "31" written on it. You can see the "paddle" that gets pressed when you are forced backwards in a rear end collision. There is more space between it and the seat foam than usual because I think I had the lumbar cranked all the way on to make it easier to tuck the foam in place, but you can see the "void" in the springs in the area of the mechanism. This has the effect of letting your backside tuck backwards and bend the spine enough that I end up tensing up and getting sore.
The foam is about 1.5" thick and as-is was a bit too thick so I ended up carving a hollow for the "paddle" of the headrest mechanism to fit in (after I took these photos). This reduced the effective thickness to about 1" and had the added benefit of guaranteeing that the foam will stay in place. Not sure if 1" is still too much... I'll have to drive it a bit to see.
Note that the seat cover is held together in the rear with three metal rings that have to be bent to remove. Once removed, they can be replaced with three zip ties to hold the seat cover together again. If you need to open it up again, just cut them and replace them when done.
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