What the heck happened? Car Rolled while changing tire

[fishnyc22]

Ok.. so clearly I've learned a lesson here. So I thought I would share it with you all just in case I wasn't the only one who didn't know this.

My wife got a slow leak in the back left tire of our 2010 Highlander. I went out after dinner to swap it out for the full size spare.

I have always had manual transmission cars (Still have my 5-Speed 2000 4runner running strong with almost 200k miles) so it never occurred to me to use the emergency/parking brake on the automatic transmission vehicle.

My garage is fairly flat but I still followed the chart in the users manual and chocked the front of the front right tire. I jacked the car up enough to get the flat tire off. As I pulled it off the lugs the car shifted back about 1-2 feet and slowly dropped down as the jack slipped out (scary sh*t). Luckily the flat tire hit the top of the wheel well and the car settled in place. WTF???????

No major damage was done except that the bottom of metal plate that kind of sits behind and under the drum was slightly depressed upwards. I was able to fix that with pliers. Also my lift gate was opened and hit the garage door but only (by some miracle) the under side of the plastic "Highlander" handle was scraped a bit.

Jacked the car up and put on the spare... all is well. It could have been a LOT WORSE!

I NEVER would have thought that the car would roll in park. But apparently it can. Anyone know why? Its the AWD base model. Curious and hopefully someone else learns from my mistake.

Fish

[bschurr]

Holy $hit - you are a lucky dude Mr Fish! This could have ended much worse...

Unless stranded on the side of a road, I would never use the supplied jack to lift any car. In fact, when I do work on my vehicles in the garage. I always use my 3 ton floor jack and jack stands to support the vehicle. Needless to say, you also learned the lesson about always applying the parking brake too (unless you are repalcing the rear brakes)!

Most importantly, all lug nuts should be losened BEFORE the car is jacked up so that while the tire is in the air you are simply unscrewing the lugs and not forcefully removing them. The same procedure shoul dbe used for tightening the lugs - hand tight while the tire is in the air and torqued only once the tire is on the ground.

I suspect that the jack was not flat and level on the floor which caused it to "rack" a little and with the weight of the HL on top of it, she gave way when you pulled the tire and the load shifted. Even with the transmission in 'park", there is some play in the drivetrain and suspension. For example, if you walk up to the HL parked and all 4 tires on the ground and give it a shove from the rear quarter to the opposite side it will move a lot. This movement would be even more pronounced if one tire is in the air...

Most importantly, you got the tire off, will get it properly repaired (patch not plug) and you were able to tell about it all.
You are a Lucky Fish!
All the best!
-B

[jgayman]

I can't say I agree that there is anything wrong with using the supplied jack, especially while in the garage.

I just had a LF flat on my '11 SE and had to change the tire in my gravel driveway. To make matters worse my driveway is not level.

I was going to use my floor jack but then I saw in the manual that in order to use a floor jack under the front end you first have to remove some plastic pieces. I didn't have any other tools handy and I needed to get to work and figured there was no better time than now to test the supplied jack and other equipment. Better in the driveway than along the freeway.

I oriented the car so the side with the flat was uphill. I had the car in Park, applied the emergency brake, and put a chock behind the rear wheel.

I didn't have any problems at all. The supplied jack and handle worked very well actually.

By the way, what do you mean by "patch not plug"? My tire had a nail right in the center of the tread. I took it to a tire shop to be repaired rather than the local service station. They didn't ask me "how" I wanted it fixed but when I got it back it sure looks like there is a rubber stem (plug) coming out of a hole.

I'm not a fan of repaired tires in general and was planning to replace my Toyo tires with Michelin LTX before winter but I was curious about your patch vs. plug comment.

[bschurr]

Originally Posted by jgayman

<snip>
...By the way, what do you mean by "patch not plug"? My tire had a nail right in the center of the tread. I took it to a tire shop to be repaired rather than the local service station. They didn't ask me "how" I wanted it fixed but when I got it back it sure looks like there is a rubber stem (plug) coming out of a hole.

I'm not a fan of repaired tires in general and was planning to replace my Toyo tires with Michelin LTX before winter but I was curious about your patch vs. plug comment.

A patch is repaired by taking the tire off the rim and then a disc or patch is applied over the hole. It is applied from the inside of the tire after preparing the surface and when set, creates a vulcanized bond to the inside of the rubber tire. A plug is typically applied from the outside with a piece of material (rubber) that is forced into the hole (with some adhesive) which seals the perforation. IMHO - patch is the preferred method and should always be requested at the tire center or service station.

[fishnyc22]

Originally Posted by bschurr

Holy $hit - you are a lucky dude Mr Fish! This could have ended much worse...

Unless stranded on the side of a road, I would never use the supplied jack to lift any car. In fact, when I do work on my vehicles in the garage. I always use my 3 ton floor jack and jack stands to support the vehicle. Needless to say, you also learned the lesson about always applying the parking brake too (unless you are repalcing the rear brakes)!

Most importantly, all lug nuts should be losened BEFORE the car is jacked up so that while the tire is in the air you are simply unscrewing the lugs and not forcefully removing them. The same procedure shoul dbe used for tightening the lugs - hand tight while the tire is in the air and torqued only once the tire is on the ground.

I suspect that the jack was not flat and level on the floor which caused it to "rack" a little and with the weight of the HL on top of it, she gave way when you pulled the tire and the load shifted. Even with the transmission in 'park", there is some play in the drivetrain and suspension. For example, if you walk up to the HL parked and all 4 tires on the ground and give it a shove from the rear quarter to the opposite side it will move a lot. This movement would be even more pronounced if one tire is in the air...

Most importantly, you got the tire off, will get it properly repaired (patch not plug) and you were able to tell about it all.
You are a Lucky Fish!
All the best!
-B

I NEVER in a million years would have assumed the car would have rolled that much while in park. The jack was fairly level when it was up (or at least it appeared to be). AND, I did loosen the lugs while the car was on the ground. So I technically did everything right... well except for that "emergency brake part"... but come on.. it was in PARK!!!!

But man.. yes I am VERY lucky indeed. I can't believe I have really no damage after that happened.

So what wheels actually lock when the car is in park? Is it ALL of them? If so, I can't see how it rolled that much. When I went to jack it up again and re-chock the tires (both sides this time), I found the car was easily almost 1.5 feet from the original chock.

Regardless, glad me and the car are ok. Thanks for the tip about Patch not Plug... my dad said the same thing... gonna take it on sat to get fixed... I think i'll let them put the repaired tire back on

[jgayman]

Originally Posted by fishnyc22

So what wheels actually lock when the car is in park? Is it ALL of them?

That's a good question. I did notice that when I had my left-front tire jacked up that I could not turn it - it just rocked back and forth slightly like when the car is in park.

[RC1]

I suspect you lifted one front tire slightly, and that allowed the other front tire to spin since the vehicle doesn't have a locking front diff. Parking brake would've prevented this.

[fishnyc22]

Originally Posted by RC1

I suspect you lifted one front tire slightly, and that allowed the other front tire to spin since the vehicle doesn't have a locking front diff. Parking brake would've prevented this.

I guess thats possible. but I would be surprised I lifted it that high. Either way. i'm alive with no broken bones and the car is slightly scuffed in places that no one will see. Its a win-win!

[jgayman]

Originally Posted by bschurr

A plug is typically applied from the outside with a piece of material (rubber) that is forced into the hole (with some adhesive) which seals the perforation.

Oh no... I think I got pluggeed!

[TrailDust]

Originally Posted by bschurr

Most importantly, all lug nuts should be losened BEFORE the car is jacked up so that while the tire is in the air you are simply unscrewing the lugs and not forcefully removing them. The same procedure shoul dbe used for tightening the lugs - hand tight while the tire is in the air and torqued only once the tire is on the ground.

I suspect that the jack was not flat and level on the floor which caused it to "rack" a little and with the weight of the HL on top of it, she gave way when you pulled the tire and the load shifted. Even with the transmission in 'park", there is some play in the drivetrain and suspension. For example, if you walk up to the HL parked and all 4 tires on the ground and give it a shove from the rear quarter to the opposite side it will move a lot. This movement would be even more pronounced if one tire is in the air...

+1....what he said.

Originally Posted by jgayman

I'm not a fan of repaired tires in general and was planning to replace my Toyo tires with Michelin LTX before winter but I was curious about your patch vs. plug comment.

As far as plugging is concerned I've been performing plugs myself for 30 years and never had a leak or a failure. I think the main problem is that people often do not use rubber cement when applying plugs, which serves two purposes: it lubricates the plug during the insertion process preventing tears and contortions of the plug, and the cement hardens and locks the plug in place. Plug or patch is up to the individual, but I think plugging is just fine as long as they're applied correctly.

[Dman1]

Originally Posted by TrailDust

+1....what he said.





As far as plugging is concerned I've been performing plugs myself for 30 years and never had a leak or a failure. I think the main problem is that people often do not use rubber cement when applying plugs, which serves two purposes: it lubricates the plug during the insertion process preventing tears and contortions of the plug, and the cement hardens and locks the plug in place. Plug or patch is up to the individual, but I think plugging is just fine as long as they're applied correctly.

+1 on both comments. There is nothing wrong with plugs. I have had them many times on many different tires on many different vehicles. Never an issue. Some people must not be doing it correctly if a leak develops from a plug. When my HL was three weeks old, I got a lovely screw in one of my tires. I got a plug, and up until I replaced my A20s two years later, no issues whatsoever. On my wife's Corolla, I had a plug installed 3 or 4 years ago, and still no issues whatsoever. I could go on about previous cars that I have owned, but they have all been similar positive experiences.

One thing to keep in mind is there is a maximum size of hole in which the plug will work. Perhaps some people are trying to patch a hole that is simply too big.

[luck123]

Just to pitch in here, when I swap out for my winters/summers, I use a floor jack in my garage and use the front jack point that gets both front tires off the ground. I too loosen the lugs before they're off the ground, because if I don't, the tire i'm working on will rotate, and the other rotates freely in the opposite direction. They key is you had one off the ground so the other could rotate freely. As mentioned, parking brake would have prevented that. Good thing the result was little harm to the HL, and more importantly, no harm to you!

[Ralph6410]

In Canada (Alberta) I am under the impression that you must specifically ask for a tire to be repaired with a plug at a repair shop. Most will not do so.. not sure if this is a legal requirement. Plug repair kits are still sold in places like Canadian Tire but they are for the do-it-yourself crowd.

[katekebo]

The car rolled because in Park the transmission is "locked" but the wheels are still connected among each other through a differential. That means that as soon as one of the wheels is off the ground, the other wheel(s) can spin freely. That's why the car's manual says to use the parking brake AND choke the wheel(s) when changing a tire. But some people think that they are too smart to read a user manual, and then learn the lesson the hard way. Sorry to be nasty, but manuals are written for a reason.

[AVConsult]

Many tire manufacturers void warranty if plugs are used--part of the process in using a plug is (was) to use the file looking pick to chase the puncture and "roughen" it to allow the plug and cement to grip. Both the pick and the plug insertion tool can break the fine wire that make up the belts, which can lead to belt failure and carcass failure.

A patch plugs the leak, adds some lateral reinforcement to the puncture area and does not cause further belt damage.