Girl needs help with 1989 22R-E

[SnowCindy]

Hello! I posted the message below in the 1989-1994 child forum. I realize that I may get more traffic here. Please help!

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Hi everyone! I'm a newbie here. I'm working on learning about my truck. I've talked to a few mechanics, and am starting to figure some things out. But I have one problem that I just can't seem to fix. I;m quite emotionally attached to my truck, and am not ready to give up on it.

I have a 1989 Toyota Pickup with a 22R-E engine, with almost 200K miles. It
developed a miss that has been difficult to diagnose.

Symptoms: The truck will start to miss (rough idle) as soon as it starts to
warm up, a few minutes after starting from overnight cold. At idle, I can
see and feel the miss by the shake of the shifter and vibration. It seems
to be a rhythmic miss where it would smooth then miss and smooth then miss.
If I turn on the AC (so the idle speed is increased) the miss would smooth a
bit but I can tell that it's still there. If I raise the engine speed to
1000+ RPM I can still feel a slight miss.

What I have done: Changed the (to all OEM parts) spark plugs, wires, cap,
rotor, and air filter. I have not changed the fuel filter, hearing that
it's a big job, but if the fuel filter is the cause, wouldn't it miss more
at higher RPM or under load?

This persists after several tanks of gas by different major brands, so it's
not bad gas.

Any ideas? O2 sensor? Many thanks for your input.

SnowCindy

[slacker]

just maybe something more to look at , but you might just want to check out your cold start injector .... you may have a leak down problem , and it may be dripping fuel .

[SnowCindy]

Thanks for the suggestion slacker. I'll take a look and see if I find anything. At this point, I'm going to follow all leads.

[jamm07]

I would try your o2 sensor,they can cause all kinds of problems.

[qsd-dan]

"Symptoms: The truck will start to miss (rough idle) as soon as it starts to
warm up, a few minutes after starting from overnight cold."

So there is no miss when the truck is first started? Exactly how many minutes pass when the miss starts occurring AND what does the temperature gauge read (if you have an analog gauge)? If the miss starts after the truck is warmed up, that usually points to the O2 sensor being faulty. The computer does not read the O2 sensor until the truck is near or at normal operating temperature. If the O2 sensor has not been replaced in the last 60-80 thousand miles, it needs to be replaced anyways. O2 sensors slowly deteriorate over time from carbon and other exhaust related chemicals, which cause the sensor to become "lazy."


"I have not changed the fuel filter, hearing that it's a big job, but if the fuel filter is the cause, wouldn't it miss more at higher RPM or under load?"

I doubt that the fuel filter would cause a miss at idle. It's not a big job to change the filter, just time consuming and a pain to get to. I change mine every 30,000. If yours hasn't been done in 50,000 or more, it would be a good time to change it soon.

Have you pulled any codes from the computer yet? You may get lucky and find a code related to your problem.



Other related problems that are linked to a miss:

Vacuum leaks- Pull off every vacuum line you can find and inspect each one for cracks, holes, or if it has collapsed (it'll look flat). Don't forget to check the big rubber ones between the air filter and throttle body.

PCV valve- Remove the valve from the valve cover and vacuum hose. Shake the valve, it should make a rattling noise. If it doesn't replace it, they're cheap.

Check and adjust TPS (Throttle position sensor) - These go out of adjustment over time and can cause a miss and a rough idle as well as a bunch of other problems. Here is the link related to this

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml

Incorrect timing- Check and adjust the timing. On 85 and up 22res, I believe you have to short out a connector (Te1 ?) (My 84 22re doesn't require this, it uses the vacuum advance mechanism)

Dirty battery cables - I’ve fixed several problems by just cleaning the cables and terminals. The computer is very sensitive to proper voltages.

Dirty fuel injectors - I just went through this one to get rid of a miss. After spending many hours checking every single vacuum line, sensor, entire ignition system, ect., I narrowed it down the fuel injectors. No cleaner in the world worked to get them completely clean (believe me, I tried) I ended up pulling them and sending them to be ultra sonically cleaned and rebuilt (new pintles, filter baskets, seals and grommets replaced) This made a world of difference and fixed my miss, rough idle, and increased my fuel mileage as well. I hope this isn't your problem since it gets kind of involved

[SnowCindy]

Well, here is the update so far:

First, thanks a bunch to everyone for the ideas. As I mentioned initially, I have changed the plugs, plug wires, rotor, and cap. No change. I tested for a leak in the intake: instead of using WD-40 or brake cleaner, I used an UNLIT propane torch as the fuel source. No leak. I checked the EGR; still working. Checked the PCV; seems fine. I did a compression test: compression is good in all cylinders, but a little bit high (according to Haynes), probably due to the buildup of carbon in an old engine. I changed the forward oxygen sensor (hadn't been changed in about 180,000 miles); still didn't stop the miss. Amid all this, I found my radiator had a few small cracks and minor leaks; put in a new radiator.

One thing that has me suspicious: I saw some signs of carbon near the exhaust manifold. I tightened the bolts (a couple needed a little tightening), but that didn't help either. Is that a sign of a leak? I'm wondering if I should change the exhaust manifold gasket. Any suggestions?

I don't really hear any tapping under the hood. I took off the valve cover about 3 years ago to do an adjustment, but it didn't need it--they had settled in well. This weekend I'm going to open the valve cover and check the valves.

Anything else I should do? I'm still resisting changing the fuel filter, just because it is a pain. I'm always looking for any suggestions I can get! Thanks a bunch!!

[toytruck89]

if it's at warm up... check your egr valve.. my girlfriend's truck had that problem... i'm opening it up this weekend..

[SnowCindy]

I heard that the EGR valve may be a problem with this truck. I checked it, and, surprisingly, it was fine. It is pretty hard to get to on the 22R-E; kind of a pain to get a socket in there. I also checked the valves, but they were fine. I took it to a local Toyota specialist shop and had them take a look at it. I had a bad thermostat, causing a high idle. Oddly, I thought it just ran really cool. The temp gauge has never been as high as since the thermostat was replaced. But the idle is a little slower now. The shop did a block check, and my truck failed, but not badly. I have a slight leak in the head gasket. That is probably the cause of my rough idle. For now, I'm going to live with it, watch the temp gauge, and check my coolant level every week. When I start to see signs of the head gasket getting worse (steam out of the tailpipe at startup, using coolant, etc.), I'll get the head gasket replaced. Once it is done, it will be a relief; included in the job is new intake manifold gasket, exhaust manifold gasket, valve job, timing chain, tensioner, timing chain guides, etc.. It will be reassuring to have all that replaced.

Good luck with your girlfriend's truck!

[mh808]

What doesn't make sense is that you said your compression was a bit on the high side yet the shop tells you the head gasket is leaking. With a leaking head gasket, your compression should be lower in the compression band, not higher. If you're getting seepage of coolant from your head gasket, your oil will thicken and look like mayonaise with a darker, oily color to it. Something doesn't seem right ...... be curious what happens if and when you do replace your head gasket. But you may never know what the real cause is if you do since you're planning to do all the other work on the engine at the same time.

[DevilDog48]

Keeps tabs on your overflow resevoir.

I work at a Honda dealership as an oil tech, and we had a guy come in with his Civic with oil and crap in his coolant overflow tank. Heh, and the guy thought it was a valve cover gasket going bad. Car was also running rough.

[Stump Jumper]

I've got over 325,000 miles on my 89 4x4 but had to do an over haul at 144,000 when the 1st timing chain went out on me. Since then I get the timeing chain replaced every 120,000 miles. As for the fuel filter I replaced mine by taking the starter out and performing some rather unique physical manuvers but finally got it out. Didn't have to go from the top down (tearing out the intake manifold etc.) Replacing the fuel filter at about 140,000 miles after the rebuild didn't make any difference. When mine was missing badly it was due to awfull sparkplug wires and bad corroided distributor cap. Wise to use Toyota ignition parts. Check your catalic converter. The aftermarket free flow ($59 as opposed to $565 for true toyota part) ones work great. I'm on my 3rd cat. They seam to breakup and rattle causing wierd things to happen. Good luck!

[SnowCindy]

Here is an update.

Over the past few months, my idle has been getting slowly worse. Some days are better than others, but the roughness is more pronounced in general. I had resigned myself to getting the new head gasket sooner than later just to try to improve the idle. Well..... After reading so many rave reviews, today I did the second SeaFoam treatment on my truck, in a vacuum port on the intake manifold. The white smoke poured out my tailpipe as I blipped the throttle. But I also saw small plumes of white smoke under my hood. I crawled under the truck and found an exhaust leak. On the pipe between the exhaust manifold and the cat, there was cracking on the flange connecting the piece to the exhaust manifold. It is in an inconspicuous place. I had it into a local Toyota specialty shop, and they didn't find it. At last, the likely source of my woes!!

Question: can anyone refer me to an online OE parts catalog with diagrams and part numbers? Obviously, I need to do some part shopping this week. If I can find a reliable source for the part number, I can forego calling local dealers and having them disagree with each other. Also, has anyone else run into this problem, with cracks in that flange? With a 17 year-old truck (201k), I'm expecting some difficulties getting the current part off (rust, stuck bolts, etc.). What are good penetrating lubricants that can help me get through the removal with minimal pain?

Thanks in advance for everyone's help. I will report back as to how everything goes.

[Dave's]

If you're talking about the exhaust pipe where it's welded to the flange, I had a new piece welded into the flange and to the pipe for under $100. All I did was drive it in. But if you want to do it yourself, I use Kano Sili Kroil or Aero Kroil on frozen bolts. Good luck.