If you get this you're a better man than I.

[Joe_wilson]

UPDATE: She just threw a code.. |||| | Throttle Positioning Sensor Signal. Would this have anything to do with the below problem? I can't see how a tps would cause that

Ok guys I posted a thread a while back entitled “cranks then dies like clockwork”. Well I have a new problem but before I begin on this whacked out problem I would like to thank all of you for you input on the last thread. I couldn’t have made it this far without it.

I now have a variant of my old problem. If you can get this you are the man.

I turn the key to the position right before the “cranking position” and the engine turns over and cranks. That means the engine is cranking in the normal run position and not the cranking position. And the starter never disengages.

Somehow it is also bypassing the clutch depression sensor. So I don’t even have to push in the clutch for it to crank. This would be expected considering the sensor only activates when the key is in the “crank” position and is deactivated in the “Run” position. However I believe this is a symptom of my problem and not the cause of it.

TROUBLESHOOTING

When I remove the EFI Relay located under the hood in the fuse box. The truck cranks as it is supposed to. Granted it will not run. But at least the engine turns over in the correct key position. Also the clutch depression sensor is once again activated. IE the truck cranks and acts as it is supposed to, but only when the EFI Relay is removed. AHH HA! I got it, BAD Relay you say……. Wrong.. $47 dollars and a Brand spanking new EFI Relay later she does the same thing. F’s up with the relay in, and does fine with it out.

If one of you guys can get this, you’re a better toymotor mechanic than I.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Guys to be honest with you, I am about ||| this close ||| to my next thread being.. Anybody know how to bracket in a carbed 350 SB into a 92 toyota.

[newjack]

I would try starting the truck without a key(hot wire it) . did it start and run fine? If so, the next thing I'd look into is the ignition switch itself. You may have a short in it. These things don't last forever.. its common to have to change them out.

while your ad it, check the wiring at the starter. I had a car do almost the same thing, it turned out to be a shorted wire at the starter. When the key was turned on, 12volts were shorted across a few wires that engaged the starter and would stay hot (cranking) till i disconnected the battery.

good luck

[2wickedtoyz]

that's what i was thinking it could be the switch itself

[Joe_wilson]

Originally posted by newjack
I would try starting the truck without a key(hot wire it) . did it start and run fine? If so, the next thing I'd look into is the ignition switch itself. You may have a short in it. These things don't last forever.. its common to have to change them out.

while your ad it, check the wiring at the starter. I had a car do almost the same thing, it turned out to be a shorted wire at the starter. When the key was turned on, 12volts were shorted across a few wires that engaged the starter and would stay hot (cranking) till i disconnected the battery.

good luck

I don't believe it's he ignition switch itself due to the fact that the truck cranks in the crank position when the EFI relay is removed. With the EFI Relay in it cranks in the run position. If it was a bad ignition switch it would do the same thing regardless of the EFI Relay being in place or not. Great suggestion though. but i already spent tons of time with the ignition switch.

I've checked the starter connection a few times but I guess I’ll trace it back. And see if there are any bad spots. Thanks .. :thumbup :

Also i'll try to bypass that darn ignition switch just to be on the 100% side.

[newjack]

your short may be somewhere near the EFI power sorce then. Look around that area. Once the relay is transfering the power across its shorting somewhere

[Joe_wilson]

Let me see if i can break this down a little better.

1.
Conditions:
EFI Relay In Place

Turn key to "Run Position" (position key returns to after cranking) starter engages--truck cranks--starter continues doesn't disengage-- truck revs good... No need to press clutch to crank.


2.
Conditions:
EFI Relay REMOVED

Turn key to "RUN Position" (position key returns to after cranking) Nothing happens but what is supposed to. (In Condition 1 it cranked in this position but doesn't now that EFI Relay is removed.)

Turn key to "CRANK Position" (position you turn key to turn over the engine) Nothing happens truck doesn't crank.

DEPRESS CLUTCH and Turn key to "CRANK Position" truck turns over-- truck cranks -- Truck doesn't run after letting the key return to the "Run Position" because EFI Relay is removed so engine burns what fuel is in the lines and dies..


3.
Conditions
EFI Relay In Place
STARTER wires removed to disable starter

Turn key to "RUN Position" (position key returns to after cranking) Fuel pump pressurizes lines--continues to pressurize lines never turning off (as it should after a few sec) Probably does the same in condition 1 I just can't hear it because the truck is cranking.



Thanks guys for all of your help... Sorry for the long reading. But I think if we put our heads togeather we can get this.

Originally posted by newjack
your short may be somewhere near the EFI power sorce then. Look around that area. Once the relay is transfering the power across its shorting somewhere

Thanks newjack I'll check for shorts around the relay and to the fuel pump. Good news is it has to be after that EFI Relay and before the ???? Wel back to the old "foxand the hound" short hunt.

[Joe_wilson]

Same as condition 2 except with EFI Relay in place. and IGN Fuse REMOVED


4.
Conditions:
IGN Fuse REMOVED (drivers side kick pan)

Turn key to "RUN Position" (position key returns to after cranking) Nothing happens but what is supposed to. (In Condition 1 it cranked in this position but doesn't now that EFI Relay is removed.)

Turn key to "CRANK Position" (position you turn key to turn over the engine) Nothing happens truck doesn't crank.

DEPRESS CLUTCH and Turn key to "CRANK Position" truck turns over-- truck cranks -- Truck doesn't run after letting the key return to the "Run Position" because EFI Relay is removed so engine burns what fuel is in the lines and dies..

[newjack]

the problem is after the EFI power. follow the wires from there. I bet if you jumped power to the EFI reply, the truck will do the same thing.

[Joe_wilson]

Originally posted by newjack
the problem is after the EFI power. follow the wires from there. I bet if you jumped power to the EFI reply, the truck will do the same thing.

So begin the search from the "EFI Power" Where is this located at exactly? Are we speaking of the EFI Relay switch?

Thanks for your help newjack. It's greatly appreciated.