5vzfe Turbo Kit Interest?? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

horshack · 09-29-2004, 09:56 AM

Hey everyone,

Here at www.arizonadynochip.com we just got an 03 Tacoma shop truck, and well we are very disappointed with the lack of power.

After talking with the local dealership parts counter, they advised the TRD superchargers are on galatic back order due to a fuel delivery issue.

So we were thinking of producing a turbo charger kit to make up for the lack of power. I can almost promise we can make more power and torque than the TRD super charger:

3.4L Supercharger, 5VZFE

HP & TORQUE GAIN
• Peak to peak gain: + 64 HP (34%)
• Best gain: 75 HP @ 5,200 RPM (43%)
• Peak to peak gain: + 50 lb-ft torque (22%)
• Best gain: 77 lb-ft torque (43%)
• The TRD supercharged 3.4L engine produces as much torque at 1,800 RPM as the normally aspirated engine does at its torque peak.

So my question to the all fo you is: If we were to produce such a kit, would any of you be interested?

HaveBlue · 09-29-2004, 02:23 PM

I have the TRD supercharger with all the supporting mods (headers, 305cc injectors, TRD exhaust, etc). Water injection and a smaller pulley are on the shelf in the garage.

A turbo kit for the 5VZ would be pretty cool. Though, I cant imagine you could do it as cheaply as the supercharger. Then there's also the notoriously weak headgasket. How much boost would you be pushing?

Check out the 4Runner on this site. It's running twin turbos with water injection -
http://www.f2uning.com/pages/10/index.htm
http://www.f2uning.com/pages/4/index.htm

alltrac165 · 09-29-2004, 06:44 PM

Check with the boys at www.yotatech.com or 4x4wire.com and see. More 3.4 owners there than here, and a much more active truck forum.
Also, it would have to be 50 state for me to be interested.
I did see somewhere where somebody had made a turbo kit, but it was pretty poorly designed with the turbo after the y-pipe and they put the intake air filter on the bottom of the truck about 6" from the turbo. Hopefully you can do a better job than that,

Didn't see any performance specs, tho.

horshack · 09-30-2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HaveBlue
I have the TRD supercharger with all the supporting mods (headers, 305cc injectors, TRD exhaust, etc). Water injection and a smaller pulley are on the shelf in the garage.

A turbo kit for the 5VZ would be pretty cool. Though, I cant imagine you could do it as cheaply as the supercharger. Then there's also the notoriously weak headgasket. How much boost would you be pushing?

Check out the 4Runner on this site. It's running twin turbos with water injection -
http://www.f2uning.com/pages/10/index.htm
http://www.f2uning.com/pages/4/index.htm

Well, say you spent 3500 on the super charger and supporting mods to make it work properly. We were ball parking the Turbo kit for around 4k maybe a little more depending on the size and type of intercooler.

We were figuring around 9-12 psi.
We havent researched the engine limitations yet, so about what psi does the head gasket give up?

We are in the prelim idea phase, to see if there is any interest around the topic, to identify if its even worth trying.

We got a bone stock 03 Tacoma TRD from the repo man to use as a shop truck, but we were not happy with the lack of power. We imediately put it on the dyno to discover it only made 145hp and 164 ft/lbs of torque.
Then we went to the local Toyota dealer to price a SC, to find that they are on super back order due to a TRD fuel delivery problem.

HaveBlue · 10-01-2004, 11:08 AM

9-12 PSI??? Whoa! I was having issues just trying to push 7.5 psi.

Here's a breakdown of what I spent:

$1,900 on 2nd gen TRD S/C (Christmas special)
$300 on 305cc injectors
$350 on Edelbrock headers
$300 on Apex'i S-AFC
$550 on Aquamist water injection system
$150 to have adapter plate for water injection made
$500 for TRD exhaust

So, yes, $4000 is a good figure. However, will your turbo kit include larger injectors, intercooler, complete exhaust system (not just turbo manifold), injector controller, boost controller (if applicable) and any other supporting hardware? Overall, I spent $4000 on everything. If your kit starts at $4000 and only inlcudes the turbo manifold, turbo, intercooler and piping, I really don't see a high demand for it. If, however, you can price it competetively with the supercharger and it's supporting hardware and include all the injectors, piping and other hardware, you will probably have one helluve racket!

horshack · 10-01-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HaveBlue
9-12 PSI??? Whoa! I was having issues just trying to push 7.5 psi.

Here's a breakdown of what I spent:

$1,900 on 2nd gen TRD S/C (Christmas special)
$300 on 305cc injectors
$350 on Edelbrock headers
$300 on Apex'i S-AFC
$550 on Aquamist water injection system
$150 to have adapter plate for water injection made
$500 for TRD exhaust

So, yes, $4000 is a good figure. However, will your turbo kit include larger injectors, intercooler, complete exhaust system (not just turbo manifold), injector controller, boost controller (if applicable) and any other supporting hardware? Overall, I spent $4000 on everything. If your kit starts at $4000 and only inlcudes the turbo manifold, turbo, intercooler and piping, I really don't see a high demand for it. If, however, you can price it competetively with the supercharger and it's supporting hardware and include all the injectors, piping and other hardware, you will probably have one helluve racket!

So far the kit would include turbo, HPC coated stainless headers/turbo manifold, either air/air or air/water intercooler + piping, waste gate, BOV, MBC, injectors and some sort of fuel management system plus all the odds and ends to install it. The kit would bolt up to the stock Cat location so the customer has a choice of cat back systems.

I am still looking at fuel/engine management. I am pushing our Ford chip guys to hurry and release the GM and Foreign ECU chips or reprogrammers.

I haven’t put a hard price list together, but once that happens, if TRD fixes the SC issues and releases it I may do both for a side-by-side comparison, again if there is enough interest.

horshack · 10-01-2004, 04:06 PM

Issues at 7.5 psi?????

Are the head gaskets really that weak?

What is the normal threshold?

HaveBlue · 10-01-2004, 04:37 PM

The problems I was encountering at 7.5 psi was excessive pinging. I installed TRD's 160 degree thermostat and 2-step cooler NGK spark plugs. That helped but my fuel economy tanked.
My exhaust gas temperatures sky rocketed. So much so, that I burned through two sets of catalytic convertor gaskets. I now have to replace the cat itself.
I ran the smaller 'charger pulley for less than 6 months. It also made the blower hotter and louder. I know that wouldn't be an issue with a turbo.

For stock applications, I wouldn't recommend any more than 5 psi. If a free-flow exhaust system and intake are present, maybe 6-7 psi but that's pushing it. At that point, I would strongly recommend a water injection system just to lower the intake air temps and larger injectors (400cc+) to lower the EGTs.

There's also the problem with the transmissions. At 5 psi, a "stacked plate" style transmission cooler is STRONGLY recommended. Beyond that, valve body and clutch pack work might be good idea. Otherwise, these trannies just cook under their own heat.

On the other hand, with some head and cylinder work, these engine would be indestructible under boost.

HaveBlue · 10-01-2004, 06:48 PM

By the way, would you run a single or twin turbo setup? Plumbing a single might be a bit of a challenge on our trucks.

alltrac165 · 10-02-2004, 12:25 AM

As far as the boost issue, the TRD roots style s/c creates a lot more heat than a turbo and has no aftercooler, so theoretically the aftercooled turbo kit should be able to run more boost without that kind of detonation/exhaust temp problem.
Plumbing the exhaust should be interesting to say the least.
Would the kit be street legal?

horshack · 10-02-2004, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alltrac165
As far as the boost issue, the TRD roots style s/c creates a lot more heat than a turbo and has no aftercooler, so theoretically the aftercooled turbo kit should be able to run more boost without that kind of detonation/exhaust temp problem.
Plumbing the exhaust should be interesting to say the least.
Would the kit be street legal?

At first we were looking into a single turbo vs twins = less cost and plumbing.

I dont think we would get a C.A.R.B cert, that process takes at least a year. As it is, we would be running the kit in developement for at least a year before its released. Not to mention the 1000+ pulls on the dyno.

Its still in the air, something we are looking at. Right now the real determining factor is engine management. We must have a way to adjust fuel and spark among other things.

horshack · 10-02-2004, 11:04 AM

I guess we were just looking to see if there is a market out there for the turbo kit.

We never really paid that much attention, but the Tacoma and 4Runner market is HUGE, there are TONS of them on the road.

Just wondering if even 1/10th of the market was interested in more power.

alltrac165 · 10-02-2004, 01:32 PM

Ha! EVERYONE is interested in more power. It's just a matter of cost and difficulty. Most are cheap *ahem* thrifty folk. Even if you could make it 49 state legal, you'ld probably do pretty well, especially if you get it together before TRD gets the s/c back on the market. The only disadvantage I can see, is the turbo kit is going to be much more involved to install compared to the s/c. Nearly a shop only installation for most folks. Another expense to consider for potential customers. It's a good idea, I think.
On a side note, what about a centrifugal s/c, such as a Paxton style? Might that be a less complicated install? Still more efficient than a roots and you can still run the aftercooler. Just thinking out loud...

horshack · 10-03-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alltrac165
Ha! EVERYONE is interested in more power. It's just a matter of cost and difficulty. Most are cheap *ahem* thrifty folk. Even if you could make it 49 state legal, you'ld probably do pretty well, especially if you get it together before TRD gets the s/c back on the market. The only disadvantage I can see, is the turbo kit is going to be much more involved to install compared to the s/c. Nearly a shop only installation for most folks. Another expense to consider for potential customers. It's a good idea, I think.
On a side note, what about a centrifugal s/c, such as a Paxton style? Might that be a less complicated install? Still more efficient than a roots and you can still run the aftercooler. Just thinking out loud...

Yes I have thought of the 'thrifty' and the fact that most have all the exrta income tied up in the monthly payment, I mean Toyo's sticker for quite a lot and hold there value!

Issues with centrifugal SC is the mounting plate and belt alignment. I cannot tell you the number of both shop and customer installed Paxton type SC's that just dont line up and the things just eat belts like cookies on the dyno, then chew up the bearings. It sounds easier in theory, but its just as difficult.

I talked with the shop owner and fabricator regarding C.A.R.B. and 50 state legal. They said it cost over $5k each to get that cert and its just not worth it. We have never gotten those certs, everything we build is "off road use only" clause.

Before we get started on the supposed project, I will be picking up 2 spare 3.4L motors. One with Auto trans and the other Man Trans. We will tear one motor down completely to use for a moch up and to build the jigs. Plus it give us a chance to see what the internals are made of and get idea of its limitations.

Normally what we do is build the prototype and bolt it on the everyday ride for 6+ months, testing and tuning. In the meantime we would build up one the spare motors with all the goodies to make it a screamer, you know forged everything, studs ect. Once we get quite a bit of miles on the prototype we turn it up till it pops to determine the threshold.

Its easy for us to have $20k-$30k wrapped up in the kit before we ever produce a single one for market.

Toysrme · 10-03-2004, 02:37 PM

Someone is forgetting that his trubo kit is useless without a stronger tranny LoL! Just a reminder. Pirate4*4 forums, and especially yotatech.com forums are more suited for the truck talk.

Not to take away from TN, but I would develope your kit on yotoatech, then come back here when you want to sell it. (Not that anyone smart enought to work on their truck isn't on both forums...)