noisey topend on 92 22re

[tlimes]

Hello, new to this site. Hoping someone can help me out. I recently bought a 92 extended cab toyota pickup for my Dad. When I bought the truck, I new it had water in the oil. My machinist and mechanic both told me 99% sure it was from the timing chain wearing into the timing cover housing. At this time, the truck was running good, but making alot of noise. Well, they were right, I bought a cover and timing chain set from engbldr.com. Replaced all this, adjusted the valves, thought all was good. Wrong, engine wasn't mixing water in oil, but was still very noisy. Just like loose rockers. My mech, using his stephoscope said I had alot of noise coming from around the 2nd exhaust valve. We pulled the head, machinist went thru it, all looked good except the center cam journal was binding the cam badly. Machinist cleaned this all up to free the cam. Thought, yea, this will fix it for sure. Wrong, still extremely noisy. The rockers are set at .007 int. and .011 on the exhaust. The mech is wondering about the tensioner or oil pressure now?? He can blow air thru all the oil passages where the tensioner mounts, so should have no oil restrictions. We even started it without the cover, covering the chain so not to make too big of mess, and the topend is oiling good. Did seem to be quiter without the cover, but found no signs of rockers making contact with cover. The motor has 202,xxx miles, but had good compression #'s. Any help, guys would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Sorry for the book, just trying to let ya'll know what we've done to it.

Tim

[deekay140]

the motor is generally a noisy one, however, If you overtighten the valve cover, you will get alot of rocker type noise... loosen and pull up the valve cover, set it on and tighten it with the car running, if you start to overtighten, youll know.

[slacker]

did you replace the oil pump ? or remove it at all ?

the top bolt length is very important , it goes directly into the cover . back side pictured .



If the WRONG bolt has been installed (pictured)

it will protrude out the back side and contact the chain tensioner , impeeding its opperation . tensioner wont work .

[tlimes]

Thanks for the ideas, keep them coming. When we get to the point of installing the valve cover, will tighten down while motor is running, to check for possible overtightening of mounting nuts. Again though, we saw no wear marks on the underside of the valve cover. On the case of installing the wrong top bolt on the oil pump, that could also be an idea. Talked to the mech today about this, he has already pulled the oil pump off the cover to check its condition, and said he couldn't be sure about if the bolt installed from the prior timing chain replacement, which was about 20 miles ago, was to long or not. Wouldn't there be somekind of wear or scratch marks present on the tensioner unit? Do the tensioners go bad very often? The one presently installed is new with maybe 20 miles total. Also, by looking at the pump, it looks very hard for these to wear out. Is this a common problem? I do know that the price of a new pump is kinda $$, just to find out there was nothing wrong with the old one.

Thanks again all,
Tim

[slacker]

you will see NO visable wear ... the bolt will actually contact the tensioner pad ... and hold it , not allowing for any movement from the tensioner to the chain . I'd lay money , that that is your problem

[Rycam]

Check out this link...

http://www.wheelingadventures.com/Tech/Fixs.htm

It made a huge difference in the valvetrain noise on my 22r, as well as using FACTORY TOYOTA adjuster screw tips where needed.

The beauty of this setup is you only need two of these spacers. They are only $5 each from the dealer, and can be installed on a complete engine (no head removal needed). YOU ONLY NEED TWO OF THESE ON THE INTAKE SIDE OF CYLINDERS #2 AND #3! If you encounter rocker adjuster tip wear beyond the normal shiny "hourglass wear" on the screw tips, you should get new screws. USE ONLY THE FACTORY ADJUSTER SCREWS!They are $4 each. Use aftermarket adjuster screws at your own risk.

You say the sound is coming from the exhaust side, but there are many clicks and clacks in an engine cylinder head that cannot be easily tracked. I have looked at running V-8s (valve covers off) and was baffled as to where the noise was coming from. Walk away, and try it ten minutes later, the tick is as obvious as nose on your face! Try the relatively cheap step above first before you think you have more serious problems!

edit...the valve tips are NOT normally perfectly over the tops of the valves. There is some offset that is built into the system to allow valve rotation, but as shown above, when the factory plastic spacers dig into the sides of the #2 and#3 rockers, the offset is beyond reasonable.

[tlimes]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Got one more question though. After the head job didn't help, we turned back to the timing chain. We noticed the timing chain was fairly snug on the tensioner side but on the other side it was really loose. We rotated the motor backward and both sides tightened up. Is this normal, and did this mean that the tensioner was working properly? If we had installed the wrong bolt at the oil pump, would the tensioner had worked like that? The mechanic is wanting to try a new pump and possibly a tensioner. What you think?

Thanks, Tim

[slacker]

No that is not right ... the tension on the chain is on the drive side , the tensioner will then take up the slack . I would set the engine back to TDC , and then re set the chain , using the "marked links " .

Oil pumps on these engines are built proof , but if you have a lack of pressure , I would check the face of the timing cover ... The machined portion , where the cover is bolted to is part of the pump ... If there are grooves , I usually guage it if I can feel them with my fingernail , then you will need to replace it with a new one .

Tensioners are very common to fail .. expecially jobber ones .. I recommend either OE toyota , Or Altrom .

http://engnbldr.com has great stuff ... I have bought stuff from him for a couple of engines now .

[tlimes]

Slacker, thanks for all your input!! The timing chain set was bought from engnbldr. Came with tensioner, steel rails, and I also bought one of his timing covers. From what I described in my last post, would you recommend a new tensioner? Think your the one that also posted on the wrong bolt in the oil pump being a possible problem. Again, the mechanic can't remember what bolt came from that particular mounting hole. If your recommending a new tensioner, then I'll probably go that route, then if that didn't help, change out the pump.

[slacker]

with the low miles on the tensioner , I wouldnt worry about it ... what I would do though , is mount the pump , and make sure the correct bolt is put in , before its all bolted back together... bolt should be flush with the inside of the cover .

I would think the pump is fine ... as I said .. there pretty solid .
With the new cover .. you should be fine .

I was going to mention , if your going to re set the chain ... make sure your "mechanic" sets it to TDC before he removes the chain ... otherwise he'll bend your valves . it is an interferance engine.

[tlimes]

Well, I'm about to give up!! We put it all back together again, after reinstalling timing chain, tensioner etc. Made sure we had the right bolt in the top oil pump mounting hole. Fired it up, noisy for first 5 seconds or so, then got quiet for maybe 5 seconds, then back to clattering. We didn't replace the oil pump, waiting to see what it would do. This thing has got to have good pressure, it's pumping a ton of oil to topend. We ran without cover to see. I've got 3 very good friends totally stumped along with myself. One is a 11 yrs. certified ford tech, one is a very well known local machinist that builds and races dirt track, and the the last one is another dirt tracker that has built several sbc motors. About to just give it up and buy another motor!! Any other ideas???

Thanks, Tim

[robmach]

i know this is a little late but...

i had that problem with a noisy top end after a timing chain/timing cover replacement. it kept on ticking right up until the rod bearing went south. sounded dead like something in the valve train, but it was a conrod bearing that the antifreeze in the oil-pan trick had started wearing.

if you dumped antifreeze into the pan, your bottom bearings are automatically suspect. might pay to take the pan off and plastigage the silly thing. it's a messy afternoon, but it beats a crank job.

[tlimes]

robmach, thanks for the late post, yea, we already went their, changed mains and rod bearings. Both were showing wear. Still NOISEY like a BIGDOG. Went and ordered a Toyota timing chain tensioner today, should be in Friday. All the toyota techs that we've talked to say its almost gotta be a faulty tensioner. We'll see.

Thanks, Tim

[toyota_s_runner]

my problem was a little diffrent, I had a lifter colapes...3 of them. It took 100buck and 1/2 an hour and it was up and running

[fast68]

wow nice chevy ya got in there, where do ya get the exhaust and the engine mounts ??

and how did ya mount the p/s ?

wiring ?

got a write up anywhere ?

nice!

thanks