Pulling Timing Chain..22re

[subliminaltrips]

ok i need to yank the timing chain cuz it appears to be slaping arround in there... my questin is , do i have to pull the head or can i do it without pulling the head? i have been thinking about doing the double chain kit that ive heard good things about... anybody know how hard of a job this is and where to get the kit cheapest? btw ive done heads on other engines just not on my yota so i understand the basics , i just dont wanna have to pull the head if i dont have to. autozone's website says to pull the head but it looks like you might be able to get away without doing that. any input is greatly appreciated.. tia

[87_SR5]

You don't have to remove the head when replacing the chain. Check this site out for the complete timing chain replacement:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/timingchain/

If the original plastic guide (drivers side) has broke, which it probably has, you may want to remove the oil pan just to get all of the plastic pieces from the guide.

When you buy a kit, make sure it has the metal drivers side guide.

I have to tackle this project soon, as I can hear the chain rattling around. As far as the double chain kit, I haven't really looked into it. I remember seeing in a past post that the main problem with the chains aren't that they always break, but they stretch.

Hope this helps.

[subliminaltrips]

Originally Posted by 87_SR5

You don't have to remove the head when replacing the chain. Check this site out for the complete timing chain replacement:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/timingchain/

If the original plastic guide (drivers side) has broke, which it probably has, you may want to remove the oil pan just to get all of the plastic pieces from the guide.

When you buy a kit, make sure it has the metal drivers side guide.

I have to tackle this project soon, as I can hear the chain rattling around. As far as the double chain kit, I haven't really looked into it. I remember seeing in a past post that the main problem with the chains aren't that they always break, but they stretch.

Hope this helps.

hey thanx for the info , i saw the dual chain kit for $450 which is a little pricy for me so i think ill just replace the timing chain with the kit that has the steel guides. you have a 22re also? ive had 3 people tell me that you have to pull the head off to replace it but it looks like i might get away without pulling the head. as far at the oil pan goes thats a big 10 - 4 on that , i had an olds cutlass that somebody dodnt remove the oil pan on and the fiber gear was clogged up in the oil pump screen and the engine spun a bearing. theres a timing kit on ebay with the steel guides for 60 bux.

[Sidney]

The double row timing chain kit with the backed driver's side stainless stell timing chain dampener does not cost for $450 see below for details:

Most engine wear on any engine occurs at startup with that said the R series Toyota engines such as the 18R,20R and 22R all use a timing chain which it's tension is supplied by hydraulically driven timing chain tensioner which has it's oil pressure build up few seconds after the engine has started therefore the timing chain rubs on the driver's side brown colored nylon/plastic timing chain dampener or guide and after so many miles (140-170 000 miles in the city with the average 4 starts per day) the driver's side guide breaks through causing the chain to rub on the timing chain cover for the first few seconds upon startup and when driving in 5th gear and letting off the gas.
Usually by this point the other timing components such as the camshaft sprocket,crankshaft sprocket and chain have their specs out of tolerance and hence must be replaced as well.The tensioner sometimes sticks due to dirt build up and other problems arise as well and must be replaced as well,all of those parts are sold in the aftermarket world as a "timing chain kit" which also include gaskets and a front oil crankshaft seal.Toyota on the other hand for some reason does not sell the parts as a kit but as individual parts which would cost around $400+ and from all of the reading I have done on many Toyota 4-Runner/pickup discussion sites I have come to the conclusion that many experienced off-roaders who cannot afford to buy all of the genuine Toyota timing parts instead buy the chain and tensioner from Toyota and the other parts from aftermarket as a kit but of course don't use the aftermarket chain or tensioner.
The best brand of aftermarket timing chain parts to use on the 20R & 22R series Toyota motors are:

http://www.engnbldr.com/ToyotaHotlicks.htm
http://www.22r.biz/
http://www.rpmrons.com/toyotatiming.html
http://www.npr-america.com/index.htm
http://www.autotoyotaparts.com/toyota-truck-parts.html
http://www.toyota-engine-parts.com/
http://www.europeanautomotive.com

and if you choose to buy from Toyota these places have the best prices in the USA & probably the whole world:

http://www.1sttoyotaparts.com/part_number.html (10% shipping)
http://www.toyotadiscountparts.com (free shipping with $100 & up)
http://www.Toyotaparts4U.com
http://www.toyotaofplano.com

Other ways to check timing chain wear are:

http://www.misterfixit.com/chanslop.htm

you can also remove the valve cover and take a flashlight and see if the driver's side timing chain dampener or guide wore through.

You can bend 1 to all 8 valves and have timing cover eaten through if you wait and then coolant and oil mix together to give you butterflies in you stomach.You can do a fluid analysis on your engine oil by going to any Caterpillar and buying a fluid analysis kit for around $15-20 and taking a sample of your old oil.

Finally these sites explain the timing chain replacement well:

http://yotarepair.com/22R%20timingchain.html
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ingChain.shtml
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/timingchain/

Any Public Library in your area would have the Factory service manual,Haynes,Chiltons,Mitchells,Bentley and Toyota repair books.

There is also free AutoZone service manuals at:

http://www1.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...pair_guide.jsp

For scanned pages of factory service manuals for other engines:

http://www.brian894x4.com/Scannedmanual.html
http://www.showmesome.info/hilux/info/manuals/1KZ-TE
http://toyoefi.freeyellow.com/manual.html
http://www.grubinski.com/grubinski/manuals.html
http://www.hotrodder.com/kwkride/tech.html
http://www.autoshop101.com
http://www.mtv411.com/sitemap.htm

2003 Toyota Tacoma Factory Service Manual:

http://www.junglecode.com/toyota/tacoma/2003_fsm/
FSM (factory service manual)can be acquired in several ways:

Toyota Material Distribution Center
750 West Victoria St
Rancho Dominguez/Compton,CA 90220-5538
USA
Ph:1-800-622-2033 (outside CA)(M-F: 7-5 PST)
Ph:1-800-443-7656 (inside CA)
Ph:1-310-818-4630 (in or outside CA)
Speak to Beverly or Deloris
http://techinfo.toyota.com/public/main/mdc.html
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/FSM.shtml

1)buy a used one off e-bay
2)some Toyota dealerships may give you one or sell it for $10-20 (used) as most Toyota dealerships don't repair many old Toyotas and no longer need the service manual
3)some public libraries sell their old books as they are not in demand any longer
4)some free buy & sell classified papers,websites and bulletin boards may have some used ones for sale
5)some junk yards may have one laying around
6)some Toyota specialty garages may have one laying around and no longer use it as the vehicle may be too old and those mechanics probably have so much experience that they could publish their own factory service manual with corrections and "real world repair tips"
7)if someone has the FSM maybe they could scan all of the pages and post it on a site for all of us to download or view.

Sidney
Repairs tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:sidneybek@yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 242 000 KM

[87_SR5]

Originally Posted by subliminaltrips

hey thanx for the info , i saw the dual chain kit for $450 which is a little pricy for me so i think ill just replace the timing chain with the kit that has the steel guides. you have a 22re also? ive had 3 people tell me that you have to pull the head off to replace it but it looks like i might get away without pulling the head. as far at the oil pan goes thats a big 10 - 4 on that , i had an olds cutlass that somebody dodnt remove the oil pan on and the fiber gear was clogged up in the oil pump screen and the engine spun a bearing. theres a timing kit on ebay with the steel guides for 60 bux.

Yes, I have a 22RE. I was not looking forward to doing the timing chain just because the manual says to remove the head. Until I searched around on here I found you don't have to remove the head.

I just purchased a kit of eBay from ENGNBLDR today. Sidny also mentioned him in his post. I have heard good things from this seller. Everything is included in the kit, including all seals and gaskets (except oil pan)...and the kit has a 3 yr warranty. It cost me around $58 including shipping. The kit also has the metal guide.

I heard to fix the problem with the chain rattling in the first couple seconds of startup is to use only Toyota oil filters because they prevent oil drainback and so when you start the engine, the oil doesn't have to pump back up, therefore not causing your chain to rattle.

[subliminaltrips]

thank you ver much sid...!!! that poat is so awesome.. there should be a website that is just tat post and a link on this forum for it besides searching through it. anyways.. i bet the toyota dealer or someone linked to toyota told you that sr5... ? because there are many other filters on the market that prevent the same thing. ie fram,pure one micronic,k&n,ect just read the box. eaither way they do cost more but they are well worth the extra 5 or so bux . lucas oil stabilizer is also oils best friend. the slapping is also from the driver guide like sid said but a stretched chain will also only be tesnionable to a certain point and will slap . anyways thanx guys i appreciate your help.. this forum kicks ass if your a toyota guy i wish everybody was as heplfull including myself. hey by the way does that double row kit work on our 94 22re truck? ive heard they will not fit on anything after 1980 22r? im assuming if it did work youd have to change timing covers too? any input?

[Sidney]

Originally Posted by subliminaltrips

hey by the way does that double row kit work on our 94 22re truck? ive heard they will not fit on anything after 1980 22r? im assuming if it did work youd have to change timing covers too? any input?

No that's incorrect,the 22R series of Toyota engines have two blocks the long deck block (1981-84) and the short deck block (1985-95) so two different lengths therefore two different lengths of timing chains & covers.These sites below explain the exact month change over:

22R Series tech data sites:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar119838.htm
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar400108.htm
http://www.toyotaperformance.com/4_cyl_tech.htm
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/...toy_motor.html
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/P...ct/Engine.html
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/engines2.html
http://www.engnbldr.com/ToyotaHotlicks.htm
http://www.bitwalla.com/cruisers/info/engines.html
http://www.off-road.com/tlc/faq/engine.html
http://www.jnc.farpost.com/toytech.html
http://www.buschtaxi.net/de/01info/motoren.html
http://www.landcruiser.hu/motorok.html

Sidney
Repairs tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:sidneybek@yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 242 000 KM

[subliminaltrips]

Originally Posted by Sidney

No that's incorrect,the 22R series of Toyota engines have two blocks the long deck block (1981-84) and the short deck block (1985-95) so two different lengths therefore two different lengths of timing chains & covers.These sites below explain the exact month change over:

22R Series tech data sites:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar119838.htm
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar400108.htm
http://www.toyotaperformance.com/4_cyl_tech.htm
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/...toy_motor.html
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/P...ct/Engine.html
http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/engines2.html
http://www.engnbldr.com/ToyotaHotlicks.htm
http://www.bitwalla.com/cruisers/info/engines.html
http://www.off-road.com/tlc/faq/engine.html
http://www.jnc.farpost.com/toytech.html
http://www.buschtaxi.net/de/01info/motoren.html
http://www.landcruiser.hu/motorok.html

Sidney
Repairs tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:sidneybek@yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 242 000 KM

hey thanx again sid .. so i can use the original timing cover if its not messed up? i wasnt able to find the dual kit for my year / model

[Bill C.]

Wow, now this is one he** of a coincidence! I just walked in the door after finishing my timing chain replacement-on New Years Eve, no less! I should be out buying firecrackers and beer.....
I didn't have to pull the head. The drivers side guide was cracked in a couple places, but in one piece. It took me about 7 hours to do, but at least I didn't shell out $1100 that the dealer wanted.
The one thing that really helped me was that I have a "trick", I take a large piece of cardboard, make a rough drawing of the front of the engine, and punch holes in the board where each bolt goes. That makes it so much easier to put it all back together again.
Anyhoo, I also purchased my kit from "Enginbuilder" the Ebay guy. It's a damn good kit.

[subliminaltrips]

Originally Posted by Bill C.

Wow, now this is one he** of a coincidence! I just walked in the door after finishing my timing chain replacement-on New Years Eve, no less! I should be out buying firecrackers and beer.....
I didn't have to pull the head. The drivers side guide was cracked in a couple places, but in one piece. It took me about 7 hours to do, but at least I didn't shell out $1100 that the dealer wanted.
The one thing that really helped me was that I have a "trick", I take a large piece of cardboard, make a rough drawing of the front of the engine, and punch holes in the board where each bolt goes. That makes it so much easier to put it all back together again.
Anyhoo, I also purchased my kit from "Enginbuilder" the Ebay guy. It's a damn good kit.

hey man i just bought firecrackers and beer lol im not doing the timing chain till next week when i have a lil more cash. i plan on ordering the same kit. thanx for the info.

[Bill C.]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention.... the last time I did this(at 85k miles) I pulled the coolant hose directly above the alternator, soaking the alt.. My mech friend said not to worry, but a day later the alternator crapped out on me. This time I pulled the alt out before yanking any hoses. FYI......

[subliminaltrips]

Originally Posted by Bill C.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention.... the last time I did this(at 85k miles) I pulled the coolant hose directly above the alternator, soaking the alt.. My mech friend said not to worry, but a day later the alternator crapped out on me. This time I pulled the alt out before yanking any hoses. FYI......

hey man thanx again oh by the way man where did you get your last kit and how many miles did you get out of it?

[mnm]

Just did my '89 22R a few weeks ago without pulling the head(256K miles on the original chain). My only caution is to be very careful sliding the front cover back on when you are putting things back together. I unknowingly had pinched the head gasket at the very front of the engine and had to pull the head and replace the head gasket. It was leaking oil pretty bad but is good now.

[Bill C.]

256k?!???!! That's amazing. Mine has 185k, and had the 3rd chain installed this last Friday. Man I would hate to have been around when you realized your mistake with that head gasket.

[Sidney]

Originally Posted by Bill C.

My mech friend said not to worry, but a day later the alternator crapped out on me. This time I pulled the alt out before yanking any hoses. FYI......

If the brake and charge lights come on during revving of the engine then it's a sign that the carbon alternator brushes require replacing as this is the mileage for them to wear out. In alternators the brushes wear out on average every 140-170 000 miles where on the dashboard the brake & charge light both come on at the same time. About half of the auto electric shops in your local yellow pages sell carbon alternator brushes and copper solenoid starter contacts for about $5/pair.Another way to verify that the alternator is not charging is while the engine is running bring a metal screwdriver or any metal object near the alternator and if the alternator is working properly then it should act like a magnet and grab the screwdriver.

For carbon brushes R&R:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/mainte...nator_brushes/ http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/afertig...torbrushes.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/adherence.4x...nateur_kzj.htm
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=166525
http://www.bitwalla.com/cruisers/art...lternator.html
http://www.barneymc.com/toy_root/tec...c/altrnatr.htm

For decoding the dashboard lights:

http://www.powerbase-auto.co.uk/alternator_faults.htm
http://members.1stconnect.com/anozir...alternator.htm

Here are part #'s for Toyota alternator carbon brushes and copper solenoid starter contacts which are used in about 95% of all Toyota vehicles.

Toyota alternator Brushes with holder:

Toyota # 27370-35060=$29

Alternator brush only (qty:1 brush unless otherwise stated):

AC Delco # E724,E731 (side wire and concave tip)
Ace Electric # DA-61 (brush only),S-5367 (brush holder)
Beck Arnley # 178-1669 (side wire and concave tip)
Beck Arnley # 178-1376
Borg Warner # X580 (side wire and concave tip)
Canadian Tire # 19-2050-6=$4.49/pair
Daihatsu # 27370-87302-000
Daihatsu # 27371-63020-000
Daihatsu # 27371-87501-000
Daihatsu # 27371-70300-000
Echlin # E601=$8.16/pair (UAP/NAPA)
Echlin # ECHE601
Echlin # EC480
Echlin # ECHE480
GP Sorensen # 255047 (side wire and concave tip)
GM # 94123056
GM # 96054118
Honda # 31144-PD1-004=$9.72
Honda # 31144-PD1-0040
Honda # 31144-PD1-0030
Honda # 31150-PR7-A01
Honda # 31150-PTO-003
Hino Industries # 021660-0390
Hino Industries # 021660-0510
Isuzu # 8-94123-056-0
Isuzu # 8-97032-308-0
Isuzu # 8-97032-310-0
Mazda # 021660-0390
Mazda # 021660-0510
Mazda # KL47-18-W75
Mileage Plus # E601SB
Mitsubishi # MD604474
Mitsubishi # 21660-0510
Niehoff # WA571 (side wire and concave tip)
NipponDenso # 021660-0390
NipponDenso # 021660-0510
Standard # JX-116 (side wire and concave tip)
Subaru # 021660-0390
Subaru # 021660-0510
Suzuki # 31631-82610
Suzuki # 31656-82611
Suzuki # 021660-0510
Toyota # 27370-42010
Toyota # 27370-75060
Toyota # 27371-63020=$5.80 (up to 9105) (side wire and concave tip)
Toyota # 27371-70300=$5.20 (9105-9511)
Toyota # 27371-76004-71
UAP/NAPA # MPEE601SB
Victory Lap # FAX57=$4.49/pair (Canadian Tire)
Wilson's Electric # 26-29-7534 (side wire and concave tip)=$2.20 each (Diesel Auto Electric)(Parts for Trucks,box of 10 for $3.40)

Specifications:
Length=15 mm
Width=7 mm
Thickness=5 mm
Lead length=49 mm

7 starter repair sites:

http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/tech/starter/ -
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml
http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/afertig...rterrepair.htm
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/starter/
http://www.barneymc.com/toy_root/techneek/starter.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/adherence.4x4/start_bj.htm
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=166530

Starter contact kits:

Toyota # 28226-72010/80 (battery side)(also1KZTE-2LT-1KZT)
Toyota # 28226-72080 (8808-9108)
Toyota # 28226-16130 (9108-9308)
Toyota # 28226-55050 (9308-9511)
Toyota # 28226-70040 (9308-9511)
Toyota # 28226-72040 (motor side if needed)
Toyota # 28226-72010 (8808-9511)
Toyota # 28226-74070 (9108-9511)

For others besides 22R series:

Toyota # 28226-54220 (motor side) (2LTE, 3L..LN13# IKZTE, 2L#, KZN130,LN108,112,85..4FC)
Toyota # 28226-54250 (Diesel Surf 2.4TD, contains a new end cover and gasket)
Toyota # 28226-54320 (battery side) (2LTE, 3L..LN13# IKZTE, 2L#, KZN130, LN108,112,85..4FC,3B-1HZ-BJ73-HZJ7#-1KZT-KZJ70)
Toyota # 28226-17030 (battery side) (1H#-HDJ80-HZJ80)
Toyota # 28226-56250 (battery side) (3B-1HZ-1PZ-PZJ7#)

Starter contacts only:

Toyota # 28226-70040
Wilson’s Electric # 45-29-652

Starter brushes:

AC Delco # D762
GP Sorensen # 255048
Standard # JX-117

Whether your starter uses two rectangular types or one rectangular and one crescent you can substitute with two squares or one square and one crescent so any of the above part #'s for those kits will be the right ones,or about half of the auto electric shops in your local yellow pages would sell aftermarket contacts for only $5 each or the pair.

Sidney
Repairs tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:sidneybek@yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 243 000 KM