Strange 22RE Electrical Problems

[spageroni]

Hey, guys. Couldn't find an answer to my problem from previous posts, so here it is:

I drive a 92 two wheel drive 22RE automatic with 200,000 miles. Lately the headlights have been dimming intermittently and occasionally blinking while driving at night on the freeway. It really freaked me out the other night because I thought the lights were about to go out completely.

Another thing is, the gear selector lights (P, R, N, D etc...) no longer illuminate and last night the truck wouldn't turn-over at all. No click, no dash lights. Nothing. As if there were no battery.

I kept trying to turn the thing over until after a few minutes it fired right up, no problem. So I'm sort of at a loss as to what's happening here. My first thought was it could be a bad alternator (it's never been replaced), but then I was wondering if it may be a starter issue (also, never been replaced), or perhaps some sort of solenoid problem.

My battery is three years old, however, and I do live in Minnesota, so I suppose it could be time for a new one, or maybe it's corrosion in the wires somewhere. Also, now and then I get a sharp, high-pitched whine when accelerating and when the engine winds down at stoplights. Could this be a symptom of a bad alternator or perhaps fuel pump?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Everyone on these boards seems very friendly and knowledgeable.

Thanks,

Seth

[Sidney]

If the brake and charge lights come on during revving of the engine then it's a sign that the carbon alternator brushes require replacing as this is the mileage for them to wear out. In alternators the brushes wear out on average every 140-170 000 miles where on the dashboard the brake & charge light both come on at the same time. About half of the auto electric shops in your local yellow pages sell carbon alternator brushes and copper solenoid starter contacts for about $5/pair.Another way to verify that the alternator is not charging is while the engine is running bring a metal screwdriver or any metal object near the alternator and if the alternator is working properly then it should act like a magnet and grab the screwdriver.

For carbon brushes R&R:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/mainte...nator_brushes/ http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/afertig...torbrushes.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/adherence.4x...nateur_kzj.htm
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=166525
Rebuild your own alternator
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...r+brush+holder
http://www.bitwalla.com/cruisers/art...lternator.html
http://www.barneymc.com/toy_root/tec...c/altrnatr.htm

For decoding the dashboard lights:

http://www.powerbase-auto.co.uk/alternator_faults.htm
http://members.1stconnect.com/anozir...alternator.htm

Here are part #'s for Toyota alternator carbon brushes and copper solenoid starter contacts which are used in about 95% of all Toyota vehicles.

Toyota alternator Brushes with holder:

Toyota # 27370-35060=$29 CDN
Honda # 31105-PZ1-003
Metro # 39-82003 (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Unknown brand name # F4019-53035

Alternator brush only (qty:1 brush unless otherwise stated):

AC Delco # E724
AC Delco # E731 (side wire and concave tip)
Ace Electric # DA-61 (brush only),S-5367 (brush holder)
Beck Arnley # 178-1669 (side wire and concave tip)
Beck Arnley # 178-1376
Borg Warner # X580 (side wire and concave tip)
Canadian Tire # 19-2050-6=$4.49/pair
Daihatsu # 27370-87302-000
Daihatsu # 27371-63020-000
Daihatsu # 27371-87501-000
Daihatsu # 27371-70300-000
Echlin # E601=$8.16 CDN/pair (UAP/NAPA)
Echlin # ECHE601
Echlin # EC480
Echlin # ECHE480
GP Sorensen # 255047 (side wire and concave tip)
GM # 94123056
GM # 96054118
Honda # 31144-PD1-004=$9.72
Honda # 31144-PD1-0040
Honda # 31144-PD1-0030
Honda # 31150-PR7-A01
Honda # 31150-PTO-003
Hino Industries # 021660-0390
Hino Industries # 021660-0510
Isuzu # 8-94123-056-0
Isuzu # 8-97032-308-0
Isuzu # 8-97032-310-0
Mazda # 021660-0390
Mazda # 021660-0510
Mazda # KL47-18-W75
Metro # 38-82001(side wire concave tip) (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Mileage Plus # E601SB
Mitsubishi # MD604474
Mitsubishi # 21660-0510
Niehoff # WA571 (side wire and concave tip)
NipponDenso # 021660-0390
NipponDenso # 021660-0510
Standard # JX-116 (side wire and concave tip)
Subaru # 021660-0390
Subaru # 021660-0510
Suzuki # 31631-82610
Suzuki # 31656-82611
Suzuki # 021660-0510
Toyota # 27370-42010
Toyota # 27370-75060
Toyota # 27371-63020=$5.80 (up to 9105) (side wire and concave tip)
Toyota # 27371-70300=$5.20 (9105-9511)
Toyota # 27371-76004-71
UAP/NAPA # MPEE601SB
Victory Lap # FAX57=$4.49 CDN/pair (Canadian Tire)
Wilson's Electric # 26-29-7534 (side wire and concave tip)=$2.20 each CDN (Diesel Auto Electric)(Parts for Trucks,box of 10 for $3.40 CDN)

Specifications:
Length=15 mm
Width=7 mm
Thickness=5 mm
Lead length=49 mm

These Honda alternators are the same except the pulley must be swapped:

1986-89 Honda Accord (Carb),the EFI can be used but the voltage reg must be swapped
1990-93 Acura Integra

15 Toyota (NipponDenso now called Denso) starter repair sites:

http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/tech/starter/ -
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml
http://char.tuiasi.ro/vw/reality/rog...s/Starter.html
http://yotarepair.com/startercontacts.html
http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/afertig...rterrepair.htm
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/starter/
http://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech/...r/haveblue.htm
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical...er_rebuild.htm
http://www.startercontacts.com/install.htm
http://www.startercontacts.com/image...ded%20view.jpg
http://www.colorado4x4.net/tech/star..._contacts.html
http://www.barneymc.com/toy_root/techneek/starter.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/adherence.4x4/start_bj.htm
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=166530
Repair your own STARTER
http://www.toyotanation.com/showthre...312&forumid=10

Starter contact kits (8mm ID hole):

Ace Electric # S-5263 (only two contacts)
Ace Electric # S-5264 (only two contacts)
Metro # 66-82104 (only two contacts) (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Toyota # 28226-72010/80 (battery side)(also1KZTE-2LT-1KZT)
Toyota # 28226-72080 (8808-9108)
Toyota # 28226-16130 (9108-9308)
Toyota # 28226-55050 (9308-9511)
Toyota # 28226-70040 (9308-9511)
Toyota # 28226-72040 (motor side if needed)
Toyota # 28226-72010 (8808-9511)
Toyota # 28226-74070 (9108-9511)

For others besides 22R series:

Toyota # 28226-54220 (motor side) (2LTE, 3L..LN13# IKZTE, 2L#, KZN130,LN108,112,85..4FC)
Toyota # 28226-54250 (Diesel Surf 2.4TD, contains a new end cover and gasket)
Toyota # 28226-54320 (battery side) (2LTE, 3L..LN13# IKZTE, 2L#, KZN130, LN108,112,85..4FC,3B-1HZ-BJ73-HZJ7#-1KZT-KZJ70)
Toyota # 28226-17030 (battery side) (1H#-HDJ80-HZJ80)
Toyota # 28226-56250 (battery side) (3B-1HZ-1PZ-PZJ7#)

Starter contacts only (8mm ID hole):

Ace Electric # S-5231
Ace Electric # S-5293 (crescent moon shape)
Ace Electric # S-5295 (crescent moon shape)
Metro # 66-82106 (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Tons more at:
http://www.metroautoinc.com/PDF%20Fi...%20Contact.pdf
Toyota # 28226-70040
Wilson’s Electric # 45-29-652

Starter brushes:

AC Delco # D762
GP Sorensen # 255048
Standard # JX-117

Whether your starter uses two rectangular types or one rectangular and one crescent you can substitute with two squares or one square and one crescent so any of the above part #'s for those kits will be the right ones,or about half of the auto electric shops in your local yellow pages would sell aftermarket contacts for only $5 each or the pair.

Sidney® ™
Repairs tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:sidneybek@yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,solid front straight axle,factory cruise control,sunroof,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 244 000 KM

[spageroni]

Originally Posted by Sidney

If the brake and charge lights come on during revving of the engine then it's a sign that the carbon alternator brushes require replacing as this is the mileage for them to wear out. In alternators the brushes wear out on average every 140-170 000 miles where on the dashboard the brake & charge light both come on at the same time. About half of the auto electric shops in your local yellow pages sell carbon alternator brushes and copper solenoid starter contacts for about $5/pair.Another way to verify that the alternator is not charging is while the engine is running bring a metal screwdriver or any metal object near the alternator and if the alternator is working properly then it should act like a magnet and grab the screwdriver.

Thanks, Sidney.

The brake and charge lights do not come on during reving of the engine. And now the engine will not turn over at all, not even a click, as if the starter isn't even trying to turn the thing over. I'm about to replace the battery, but not until I've tried jumping the old one first. I have no tools to switch out an alternator or starter, so if the battery is not the issue, I'll have to take it to a local shop of some kind.

[smasheromalley]

Your problem sounds like a loose or corroded battery cable. The dash lights out is probably a coinsidence(sp?).

Next time you have the no start problem at night, open the driver door. Chances are the interior light will be on but dimmer than normal. Pop the hood and try to twist the batter cable clamps on the battery post and wiggle the battery cables around all while watching the interior light. If you find a bad spot or a loose cable the interior light will suddenly get brighter.

Hope this helps

[Hermit]

I agree with smasheromalley. It Definitely sounds like a bad connection somewhere. Could be a loose, rusty or corroded ground wire also. First thing I would check is the battery connections. Then I would check the wires and connections on your starter. It does not sound like the altenator is bad but it is a possibility that its on the way out.

I would definitely go over your wire connections though. Start with the battery and work your way to the starter. Don't forget the ground wires. Make sure everything is tight and not rotted through. Its also a good idea to pull the plug in connectors off and take a look inside them. These areas can cause a hidden problem that will not be obvious by just looking at them.

Hope this helps! Let us know how you make out and what you find.
*HERMIT* the T-Tech
"OH WHAT-A-FEELIN"

[spageroni]

Thanks, guys.

I finally found out what the problem was. It turns out it was a worn-through wire leading from the master fuse box to the positive battery terminal. The blue wire was shot, so I spliced in a 4 inch length of 10 guage black cable and connected them via male/female plastic-enclosed connectors. I hope these will do.

A shop wanted to charge me 146 dollars for replacing just the positive and negative wires at 90 dollars per hour. Since they were in very bad shape as well, I brought the truck in and told them to go ahead, but only if they'd give me a deal on a future set of new brakes (which they said yes to). I also tell them to please rewire the piss-poor wiring job I had done previously, just to ensure I don't get stranded somewhere.

So I get the truck back and not only have they not rewired the blue fusebox wire, but they had left my battery unsecured in its tray, left my truck's 4 guage stereo cables unhooked, and stole my brass bolt from the side terminal on my battery so there is no way I can hook up my stereo again. On top of that, these people left wire crimpings and shavings in my engine bay, and left my driver's side seat close enough to the steering wheel for a 4' 8" woman to drive the vehicle.

I was very upset and demaned my money back. The guy was calm and said he "didn't want to deal with this." So he refunded me the 146 dollars. What a nightmare. Never go to the full service Firestone Auto Center on Ford Parkway in St. Paul.

[smasheromalley]

Thats almost too idiotic to believe.

I despise taking my vehicles in for other people to work on. That is one of the main reasons the explorer Im leasing now will be my last new vehicle for at least a while.

Good luck getting it fixed right.