No Oil in the filter at Change time? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Fred_B · 07-09-2005, 09:24 PM

OK, so I've searched in this forum and on pirate4x4 and can't find anything about a reason why the oil filter seems brand new when I pull it off for the oil change.
Subject truck is a 1990 P'up with a 22re. at the moment 150K+ miles.
I thought for a while that the port on the engine was plugged but I have passed a plastic tye wrap down into it with out coming out with any sludge. The oil doesn't look all that dirty when I change it but I'm not a specialist in telling one shade of brown oil from another when I'm under the truck in shop light conditions.
The oil pressure gauge reads about 55+ psi at highway and down to around 20+ when at idle after warmup. No unusual engine noises. In fact it's down right quiet compared to others I've heard.
I bought the 90 P'up with 136K on it and have change oil a couple of time with the same result.
I talked to another guy at work and he noticed a similar experience with his engine. I'm using Fram Tough guard filters.
Is this common to have little oil in the filter?? I can' t imagine that the filter is that efficient to drain so quickly when I shut the engine down.

Any tips or hints, or dumbass things I forgot to look for will be appreciated.
Cheers
Fred

banshee35 · 07-09-2005, 11:02 PM

My dad always used the toyota filter-it was always full when it was removed. they supposedly have an internal check valve in them to keep the oil from draining since it sits at a downward angle. I also use fram oil filters on the same truck now(284000 miles) and it come off empty unless i have just killed it.

qsd-dan · 07-10-2005, 02:08 AM

"I'm using Fram Tough guard filters."

There's your problem right there

Fram oil filter used to be a quality filter in the 80's and back, but now are the cheapest, worst oil filters around. I know it's hard to believe since they're literally available everywhere. According to research done, most Fram oil filters don't contain the anti drain back valves they claim to have and the ones that do, are made from inferior materials. This is why the filter is dry when you remove it.

Only use either genuine Toyota oil filters or Napa gold (Wix) filters. If you want to go with a bigger filter, purchase a Napa gold 1515 or a Wix 51515. It’s the same filter and is equivalent to the PH8A orange-can-of-death Fram filter. Napa gold oil filters contain the silicone anti drain back valves.

When I found out about the inferior Fram oil filters, I purchased the Napa gold 1515 and my timing chain "death rattle" disappeared on startups

Fred_B · 07-11-2005, 01:07 PM

Great tips! thanks for the information about the Fram Filters.

I've used Fram religiously for many years. It appears I will need to re evaluate the choice.
You (qsd-dan) mention research done, who did the reseach? Is the data posted in the Toyota forums? I'll try a search on FRAM and see what comes back.
Thanks again!
Fred_B

qsd-dan · 07-11-2005, 02:11 PM

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/

Taken from yotatech.com

"What really got to me was the e-mail he got from the production line engineer who works at Fram, and he says they're trash! He won't use them, and I wager he get's them for free!"

***humanoid*** · 07-11-2005, 03:45 PM

Checkout www.bobistheoilguy.com and you have more info than you can shake a stick at.

Fred_B · 07-13-2005, 09:25 AM

Thanks for the web links! I visited BOBISTHEOILGUY there certainly a bunch of posts there to evaluate. I visited the http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/ provided.

the information there shows that the FRAM tough Guard that I am using has a drain back valve in it. So this make the fact that I am seeing little or no oil in the filter more perplexing.
I may have to cut open one of the filters I take off and see what is inside. I'll look for some sign that Oil visited the filter during it's stay on the side of the block.

If I have learned anything, it's that I need to learn more!

Fred_B · 07-17-2005, 09:07 PM

Welp, I just found out that when the Mechanic changed the timing chain, he had put a NAPA gold filter on. The oil change at 150553 had oil in the filter at change time for the first time in 15000 miles...
So, I'm perplexed wether there is oil in there becasue he also changed the oil seal or if there is something screwy with the FRAM filters... (probably the Fram filter is screwy

)
After reading through several posts toyotanation and checking out the web sites folks suggested, I put a purolator on it this time.
Interestingly enough, the couple of times I have started it since the change, the engine doesn't knock for 3 to 5 seconds after startup now.. Yes it knocked with the NAPA on it. I'll be paying closer attention to start up sounds for a bit..
I also plan on disassembling the Fram Tough Guard, the NAPA gold and a Honda OEM filter I have hanging around.
Thanks again for the suggestions and the web site pointers.
Ciao
Fred_B

redgtxdi · 07-17-2005, 09:29 PM

Hmmmmmm........interesting..........I just took notice of the "timing chain" rattle (assuming that's what it is) for a second or two at startup on my freebie '94.

Too bad this sucker starts up so flippin' fast.......LOL!!! It turns MAYBE a half-revolution before it fires, so I definitely get to listen to it before the oil makes it through the passages.

But in this poster's case, it's also rather interesting that the NAPA didn't stop it, but the Purolator did. ??????????????? Is the Purolator truly the one to use??

And........(probably more important overall)........is the fact that oil stays in the filter enough of a primer to keep the chain or other internals from rattling??

Fred_B · 07-18-2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redgtxdi

Hmmmmmm........interesting..........I just took notice of the "timing chain" rattle (assuming that's what it is) for a second or two at startup on my freebie '94.

Too bad this sucker starts up so flippin' fast.......LOL!!! It turns MAYBE a half-revolution before it fires, so I definitely get to listen to it before the oil makes it through the passages.

But in this poster's case, it's also rather interesting that the NAPA didn't stop it, but the Purolator did. ??????????????? Is the Purolator truly the one to use??

And........(probably more important overall)........is the fact that oil stays in the filter enough of a primer to keep the chain or other internals from rattling??

Well, the noise I used to hear after the engine fired ( post timing chain change and pre puroloator oil filter) was more of a knock, like what you would get from a piston rod bearing, just for a couple os seconds. It seemed like when I saw the oil pressure gauge go up, the knock would stop I'm using the same Castrol 10W30 oil, only the filter is different.

I would have a hard time believing that the "old" oil wasn't providing protection. It had been 3K since last change, and no off road

(hard revving) use.

Since I'm not a certified mechanic nor am I am chemist, It's a strange set of observations that has led me to conclude that
1) a oil change and a new puroloator filter quieted the knock after start.

I'm happy now, oil is in the filter and the valve train is quiet.

Thanks again for your posts! The pointers to the web sites were helpful.
Fred_B

dirtykaw · 07-18-2005, 07:23 PM

I've noticed the same 'knocking' noise on my 22re for a few seconds right after start up.

Before, it had a janky filter, fram or some such, but now I have a toyota filter and it sounds the same.

One thing though; my friend bought a toyota filter for a 22r just after I got mine, and he got the 'JZZ' filter which comes pre-greased and is supposedly better. His truck never made the knocking sound though..so no comparison.