New hybrid Prius to conspicuously consume slightly less gas

[dascrow]

Details have emerged about the latest model of the Valley's most self-righteous ride, the 2009 Toyota Prius, which hasn't been significantly updated since 2004. It will reportedly be longer, faster and more fuel-efficient. Also, the range of available models is expected to grow — anything from a smaller coupe to a larger, Lexus-like luxury sedan. What's not mentioned?

A factory-installed plug-in hybrid option — though I wonder if tapping a coal-powered electrical grid improves the Prius's carbon footprint that greatly. The real questions are: Who will prove more environmental in the court of pseudoscientific, envirosocial one-upsmanship — the owners who hold on to their existing vehicle, or those who trade in for the new, more fuel-efficient ones? And will the Bay Area see more violent, Prius-hating backlash?(Photo by Rick Audet)
http://valleywag.com/384880/new-hybr...ghtly-less-gas

[blacken]

why do people hate the prius?

[dakmor]

Cause it's not a solution.

[brian95]

Will the latest model come with a complimentary hippie?

[dandeman]

Originally Posted by blacken

why do people hate the prius?

Simple. Neanderthals.. they didn't go fully extinct.. But this time we all will if their opinion prevails....

[Boxedin]

Originally Posted by blacken

why do people hate the prius?

People have to hate something, or else it throws off their whole galaxy of thought. Especially if it is the closest thing to "the solution" thus far.

[knj27]

I hope the whole plug-in thing gets big because I don't often drive more that 15 or 20 miles without getting home to the outlet. I could burn virtually no gas that way.

[secrecyguy]

I can't believe someone destroyed a perfectly good car like that. I think there's other ways to protest instead of ruining a car like that.

[TMack409]

The Prius is an ecological nightmare that has already happened or is going to happen - depending on how you want to look at it.

#1)The upfront carbon footpint to manufacture one of these beasts is high, even compared to a Chevy Tahoe ...

#2) Their nickel metal hydride (NiMh) batteries are a huge hazewaste problem waiting to happen. They can't be recycled. Their heavy metals are toxic to the landfills. The burden of replacing them will fall to the 2nd or 3rd owner (further down on the economic ladder) who will be least likely of all to be able to afford the $7000 replacement cost of the batteries. Will these 2nd and 3rd generation owners simply continue to drive them once the cells begin to fail? Thus furthering the negative dependency on the gasoline engine (to take up the slack)....and further reducing the efficiencies of regenerative breaking.

IMO they represent one of the greatest environment ticking time bombs of all time....

[reliability]

<"A factory-installed plug-in hybrid option — though I wonder if tapping a coal-powered electrical grid improves the Prius's carbon footprint that greatly.">

There is a way around this. I am in the process of going Solar Power to the grid with an eye towards purchasing this plug in Prius in 2 years. That means I am putting up a more powerful electrical solar power system to take into account the future load requirements of a plug in hybrid. If what I read is true, a 100 to 150 MPG or more is possible as long as the gas engine operation is minimized. By the way the efficiencies of solar panels are increasing as solar panels are decreasing in size to the point a solar powered vehicles are just around the corner. Lets all give the Middle East and the big oil companies the one finger salute!!

[knj27]

For me, we should be worrying less about our "carbon-footprints" and more about the effect that gas prices will have on the economy. I think this whole "green" save the environment thing has because somewhat of a fad, and is really not the biggest problem we have. Realistically, Priuses are not going to be the thing that has some kind of catastrophic effect that will make or break the health of our planet.

The world is not in as dire of circumstance environmentally as people tend to believe. The world's forests have actually increased in size since the 1940's, and people live almost twice as long as they did a couple-hundred years ago. Whether a new plug-in Prius slightly increases or decreases my personal "carbon footprint" is not something I'm all that worried about. But I am down for anything that keeps more money in my pocket. If everyone had a little more money, to increase cosumer spending and in turn benefit the economy, I think that would improve people's individual lives more than the effects that the Prius really has on the environment.

[nmehes]

Originally Posted by TMack409

The Prius is an ecological nightmare that has already happened or is going to happen - depending on how you want to look at it.


#2) Their nickel metal hydride (NiMh) batteries are a huge hazewaste problem waiting to happen. They can't be recycled. Their heavy metals are toxic to the landfills.
IMO they represent one of the greatest environment ticking time bombs of all time....

I love it when people just make stuff up. Let me try: you have no idea what you are talking about, how about you back up some of your opinions with fact.....but wait everything you've just said is off the top of your head.

I'll try something different: how about I take 10 seconds to look up your "facts" and disprove them. Ok here goes:

http://www.hybridcars.com/faq.html#battery :

"Battery toxicity is a concern, although today's hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," says Ron Cogan, editor of the Green Car Journal. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 "bounty" for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled."

[knj27]

Originally Posted by nmehes

I love it when people just make stuff up. Let me try: you have no idea what you are talking about, how about you back up some of your opinions with fact.....but wait everything you've just said is off the top of your head.

I'll try something different: how about I take 10 seconds to look up your "facts" and disprove them. Ok here goes:

http://www.hybridcars.com/faq.html#battery :

"Battery toxicity is a concern, although today's hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," says Ron Cogan, editor of the Green Car Journal. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 "bounty" for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled."

^WOW...

That's awsome. Way to own some butt. The article also said this, which makes me feel much better about buying a hybrid in the future.

"The hybrid battery packs are designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer. The warranty covers the batteries for between eight and ten years, depending on the carmaker."

The whole article was very informative and helpful to me. Thanks. Where did you find that? Google? Probably. Anyway, good job.

[BeachbumXD]

Originally Posted by knj27

For me, we should be worrying less about our "carbon-footprints" and more about the effect that gas prices will have on the economy. I think this whole "green" save the environment thing has because somewhat of a fad, and is really not the biggest problem we have. Realistically, Priuses are not going to be the thing that has some kind of catastrophic effect that will make or break the health of our planet.

The world is not in as dire of circumstance environmentally as people tend to believe. The world's forests have actually increased in size since the 1940's, and people live almost twice as long as they did a couple-hundred years ago. Whether a new plug-in Prius slightly increases or decreases my personal "carbon footprint" is not something I'm all that worried about. But I am down for anything that keeps more money in my pocket. If everyone had a little more money, to increase cosumer spending and in turn benefit the economy, I think that would improve people's individual lives more than the effects that the Prius really has on the environment.

I love it when someone finally "Gets it"

Originally, the demographics onthe prius (private owners sales-not fleet which is where the majority of the older models went), were the stereotypical "treehuggers." The environmentally savvy types that were concerned with carbon footprints, the oxone layers and saving the rainforest, none of which were necessarily a bad thing.

The demographics have changed in the last few years.

It's all about saving $$$ and the dependency on foreign oil.
The Prius does that well

Had Toyota not taken advantage of thier sudden upsurge in demand and stopped trying to gouge the consumer, I'd have purchased one. Instead, I bought an XD, get good mileage, have a fully equipped car any gearhead can work on, and saved over 18-20k in doing so.

Maybe in a few years, when the competition is better, the prices more reasonable and Toyota is less greedy, I'll add one to the stable.

Either way knj, thanks for "getting it"

[BeachbumXD]

Originally Posted by knj27

^WOW...

That's awsome. Way to own some butt. The article also said this, which makes me feel much better about buying a hybrid in the future.

"The hybrid battery packs are designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer. The warranty covers the batteries for between eight and ten years, depending on the carmaker."

The whole article was very informative and helpful to me. Thanks. Where did you find that? Google? Probably. Anyway, good job.

Although the article was informative, it was still somewhat misleading and not totally thourough And you have to consider the source.

In reviewing pages of consumer complaints, there are apparently huge issues yet unanswered by Toyota. Problems with battery packs, premature electronics failure, and some potentially hazardous issues that pose a severe threat to the owner/occupants safety.

Regardless of all that, for the sheer numbers of prius on the market, they have a respectable safety and reliability record

As for the "life of the car" that's relative to the driver. I average somewhere between 40-60k miles a year undera variety of condition. I'll never see the full 8 year warranty on the battery. I'll hit the 100k mark in just a few years and have to start concerning myself with battery replacement.
At a cost of over 4k (presently) that's a huge hit to worry about. The CVT transmission? Another 7k+ for R&R, 5k of that as I read it, is for the transmission alone.

How do Honda and Toyota plan on recycling the batteries without effecting the environment?

A few questions still wait to be answered; however, the pruis is still a fine automobile and one I will likely consider on my next Toyota purchase.