yeah I said the high hp could work in an ae86 with heavy suspension mods but I don't think you'd want it for cornering or even drifting.. ESPCIALLY FOR LEARNING!
Thats why you get an adjustable Coil over suspension? So you just adjust it for the new power and such. Then again maybe I just look at coil overs because where I live if I lower my car I am screwed for the winter, Alot of the guys at the meet who tell me to lower it aren't used to the ammount of snow we get in the barrie area. Hell I see guys in the GTA driving with summer tires in the winter :|
I also don't know about you but you really can't have to much braking power? Whether you have 100 hp or 500 hp, powerful brakes will be awesome. On top of that if you want to shell out the extra money you can get those adjustable as well.
Most of us are driving older cars where the stock suspensions and tires and brake systems are worn out and are ok for normal driving but not for anything that pushes them. I don't know about you, and I'm going to assume from your not being able to afford suspension and brakes twice, but I can't afford to overhaul the WHOLE car all at once.
so let me get this straight.. i'll set-up the suspension and brakes first that'll be ok for the "stock" motor.. all well and good. now, what happens when i decide to mod the current stock motor, ie. boost it? that suspension is now off and the brakes are prolly not gonna be enough oh and guess what, we're back to square one.
wouldn't it be a lot cheaper if we do it engine, get the hp then figure out what suspension it needs and how much stopping power i have to do? i don't know about you but not a lot of us can afford getting suspension and brakes twice, well at least not me.
fyi, the only limitation i know when it comes to modding cars is M-O-N-E-Y. we've heard so many "oh, you can't do that!" or "it wont' fit!" or "it's not gonna work!", i don't believe any of that. you can use wide track wheel set-up, wide body kits to accomodate any wheel and tire combo. there's no such thing as it can't be done.
I don't really agree with the only limition to modding cars being money,I think if money is the limited the only real limiting factor is how handy you are.I've built my entire car for peanuts simply because I do everything myself,had no clue how to work with fiberglass so I talked to someone that does and they showed me how its done and gave advice.Same guy helped out with materials and I worked on his shop in trade for his help-in the end I built all the moulds and parts for the ENTIRE car for under 1K.
Same with the engine,I originally rebuilt a 20v I bought for $250 with a couple of bad pistons-needed pistons anyways so I bought all new gze stuff from the dealer(a friend works at a dealership so I got his pricing)and rebuilt it myself for under 1K including freshening the head,bought the gze charger stuff in pieces for a $200 bucks and the same for the w2a i/c stuff.
Did the same with the roll cage,bought a basic kit that included the bent tubing needed and then I did all the notching and fitting myself-the complete cage including nascar style door bars was under $400.I built my own camber plates,NRCA's,coilover conversions,custom equal lenght 3 link rear set and on and on.
The point is if you don't have the cash don't whine about it just build it any way you can.
I don't have much money but I destroy cars costing mega $$$$ at autox's by many seconds so....
yeah but if your not handy the limitation would be money. If you don't have the skills or TIME money will make up for it.
So he's right, the limits of what you can do depends on how deep your pockets are. Doesn't matter how EXTREEM the engine swap is. it can pretty much be done.
fyi, the only limitation i know when it comes to modding cars is M-O-N-E-Y. we've heard so many "oh, you can't do that!" or "it wont' fit!" or "it's not gonna work!", i don't believe any of that.
Right, but most of the kids here have alittle practical knowledge of mods, other than what they read in magazines/internet forums... it might be offensive to some, but its the truth, no sense hiding it.
Kevlar corolla, alot of people here dont have the knowledge, skills or a place to do these mods.
but freakinbox, no offence but take it a bit easy on the "teaching". Mike actually knows what hes doing. You cant just mod some part and then decide on another thing. Its like people here get a header and then decide they want a turbocharger, no point in getting the header if you want to turbo your car. The header will be useless.
As for high horse power, its just the kids and people who cant afford the mods that say you dont want a high horse power engine in a corolla, etc. High horse power is alot cooler and alot more fun than a low horse power lawnmower. When you get to drive a car with 500horses you'll know what I'm talking about.
Also race cars have quite different brakes than factory cars, because they lack brake boosters, you cant exactly directly compare them, not to mention the heat range is quite different.
but freakinbox, no offence but take it a bit easy on the "teaching". Mike actually knows what hes doing. You cant just mod some part and then decide on another thing. Its like people here get a header and then decide they want a turbocharger, no point in getting the header if you want to turbo your car. The header will be useless.
My point is you can do it my way if you buy an adjustable suspension.
I'm not teaching him anything. he goes about it one way, I go the other. Thats all I said, he had tell me why it's wrong and I told him why it works. If you buy nonadjustable stuff it wouldn't work, he'd be right then since you would be stuck with the setting you bought orginally. But since conditions can change the proper suspension setting adjustable is better.
Thats why you get an adjustable Coil over suspension? So you just adjust it for the new power and such. Then again maybe I just look at coil overs because where I live if I lower my car I am screwed for the winter, Alot of the guys at the meet who tell me to lower it aren't used to the ammount of snow we get in the barrie area. Hell I see guys in the GTA driving with summer tires in the winter :|
what part of an adjustable suspension are u going to adjust to accommodate new power?
Suspension doesnt really know if you have 100 or 500hp in your car. Sure during acceleration the rear will squat down, but thats really not a big issue. Suspension is more cautious of weight
you would have to adjust it to plant the new power to the road. the forces applied to it when accelerating would be greater
Doesnt really go like that. Suspension isnt something you change due to power. Power will cause rear end squat, but like I said, thats not a bad thing. Main thing with suspension is to keep the wheels on the ground during bumps.
suspension can change how the new power is planted to the ground off the line. Tell guys into drag that the suspension adjustments don't change that, go ahead. When you get up to 500 or 600 hp and your trying to put it to the ground your settings and tires make a huge difference.
and I would say the camber, maybe not so much on an 86 since it's a solid rear axle but on something like a 240 or s2000, maybe raise the rear just a little and asjust the struts. Lex bolding the comment you made the first time to get your 2 cents in doesn't really make me want to respond to you anymore than the first time.
you want to critisize why I chose to mode my car in that order go ahead, but you haven't givin any valid reasons to not do it that way
comparing it to a header and then wanting a turbo doesn't work. If you go with adjustable shit you can change the settings accordingly where as the the header is pretty much usless in the turbo set up.
You try to tell me it's wrong and then say that the suspension doesn;t make that much of a difference in putting the power to the ground.
If your going to shove in a much heavier motor you should plan that ahead of time. but you can stiffin the suspension in the front to deal with the extra weight the way I am thinking.
I notice you have something to say, yet mike didn't go off on this huge thing telling me I'm wrong this and that.
^ i just want to know what parts of an adjustable suspension should be adjusted to accommodate new power. im not trying to criticize you at all, sorry if u got it twisted. all i got from your 2nd response is that camber should be adjusted, could you elaborate on that pls? and are there any other parts that need to be adjusted? tia
Race cars and street cars suspensions are very different from each other, its quite something comparing a drag/track car and a street car. First of all, adjustable suspension for street cars pretty much have these adjustments: Height, inbound dampening, outbound dampening and spring stiffness (by changing the spring).
Now race cars, you can alter the joints or turning points so that your suspension parts move in a different way. Do you need that in a street car or want it? Probably not, plus on the street you need to think about bumps, different driving conditions, its not like you're going to adjust your suspension to the conditions or road you drive every morning. A track is almost always smooth, so you wont hit a pothole with that ulta expensive race suspension and damage it. Notice how easily for example F1 suspension gets whacked up when they hit gravel?
Only car you could compare to a normal car is a WRC, but even then, most of the people here in this forum wont be able to afford the suspension components of the car. Each shock costs around 6000us dollars, not to mention all the other parts. Those are race parts prices.
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and I would say the camber, maybe not so much on an 86 since it's a solid rear axle but on something like a 240 or s2000, maybe raise the rear just a little and asjust the struts. Lex bolding the comment you made the first time to get your 2 cents in doesn't really make me want to respond to you anymore than the first time.
Raising the rear will cause the front to have more weight distribution, rear end will break out easier to a skid. Not to mention orienting the car differently will also cause aerodynamic issues. The fact that something has a stiff rear axle isnt a bad thing, you can adjust camber on it by cutting up and welding the banjo, but for grip you dont want it. Positive camber actually has worse grip driving down straight,because you're focusing most weight on the inner part of the tire. Grip = area or weight, so when you only have the inner tire carrying most weight, the friction will be the most there, as the rest of the tire has alot less. Not to mention the area for contact will be halved.
On turning, it will be better, because the outer tire will flex so that it contacts the surface perpendicular, thus the whole contact surface will contact the ground and then you'll have more area to to carry the weight and thus more grip. Inner tire will have reduced grip, but since most force is on the outer tire and often cases the inner tire will even lift off, your car will have alot more grip.
For straight line you want the tires to be straight perpendicular to the ground, where you get most contact patch to the ground, thus more grip.
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When you get up to 500 or 600 hp and your trying to put it to the ground your settings
And how do you adjust it? Only thing is about weight.
Raising the rear will cause the front to have more weight distribution, rear end will break out easier to a skid. Not to mention orienting the car differently will also cause aerodynamic issues. The fact that something has a stiff rear axle isnt a bad thing, you can adjust camber on it by cutting up and welding the banjo, but for grip you dont want it. Positive camber actually has worse grip driving down straight,because you're focusing most weight on the inner part of the tire. Grip = area or weight, so when you only have the inner tire carrying most weight, the friction will be the most there, as the rest of the tire has alot less. Not to mention the area for contact will be halved.
Yeah but I said earlier before you wasted your time typing this that youy need to balance the settings. You can't have it purely for cornering or purely for straght lines.
you don't want to mess with the camber for a straight line on a solid axle since when the suspension moves it doesn't change... thats why I said you don't really want to mess with it as much. But with independant as the wheel travels up and down your camber changes, 500 hp will put alot of force on that rear when it squats down. Then chaging your camber and not giving you the alignment with the road you are looking for.
With 500 hp in a 2300 lbs car? Which if you really put that much power into it chances are you've lightened it can't be complared to a drag car? Your not going to be able to drive it around or use most of the power if you don't change your suspension accordingly and I doubt a 1 - $2000 suspension is going to be any good for that car anyways.
As for comparing it to a race car, that wasn't my point. I'm not saying go out and make your suspension setting purely for one function. What I am using as an example for is your saying it doesn't change how the power is put down and I'm saying it is... You can't do that with a street car because eventually your going to have to turn, what you do just like in some forms of racing is compromise. Compromise better track car for comfort, and going straight in a stable manner, or cornering.
you still didn't say why the way I want to mod a car is SOOOO wrong. You keep saying how street cars the suspension isn't such a big thing when power is added...
Which if you really put that much power into it chances are you've lightened it can't be complared to a drag car?
Heres a car with full interior and 500hp with street suspension. Its a monster. Lightened cars suck, I have full sound deadening in my car, plus the rollcage adds weight. Who wants to drive an inky-dink tin can, which girls hate. http://www.kisakiree16v.com/temp/kiihottelua.wmv
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