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Uh oh - starter click click click

4K views 55 replies 15 participants last post by  Pete Suhman 
#1 ·
So my current starter is a rebuilt Denso (dealer sourced so I assume rebuilt BY Denso as well). It was installed after the original one failed in 2003 at 60k miles.

Now at 144k miles (so 84k miles and 13 years on the starter) the starter gave me a "click" three times in a row today. I.e. when I turned the key from ON to START three times in a row it only clicked. When I turned OFF the ignition completely and turned it back ON and then START it fired right up. Starting the car again the next 4-5 times gave no issues.

However I assume this is the early warning sign? Thoughts on course of action? Let it gradually get worse before replacing, or just replace (or rebuild) now before it gets worse? With winter approaching it's not something I'd be too happy getting stuck with so perhaps I just answered my own question...
 
#2 · (Edited)
My starter did that for a LONG time. Almost 3 years it did that. Then I finally replaced it because it made a horrendous sound. Sounded like somebody working on a lathe. And it was turning over pretty slowly even though I had a good battery and (good enough)alternator. I actually still have the old one in storage. I still don't know what failed or was failing. I just figured I'd replace it before it did some damage to something else.
 
#3 ·
You have the 1.6, correct?

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...1.6l+l4,1434199,electrical,starter+motor,4152

Sounds like the starter is failing. Typically, it will take 3 or 4 turns to start, then 5 or 6, then 7 or 8, then it won't start at all.

If you plan to keep the car, for $75-80 New, I think it is pretty easy to change and I would do that.

I also think others have said you can buy new contacts for $15-20 on E-bay and rebuild your current one pretty easily, but I've never tried that.
 
#10 ·
Denso used something like a eight different shapes across different applications for the contacts, and rebuild kits often just give the smallest shape of contact as a common ground across a bunch of them. It works, but if the shapes don't match, you have less contact surface and the new contacts will erode faster than they ought to.

You can see all the different shapes at:
http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/densoparts.html

Ideally, you'd want to get a set of contacts that matches what your solenoid actually used and not just the smallest once-size-kinda-fits-all contact. Easiest would be to find a set that's listed for the specific application, or buy from a vendor (like NAE) who asks you the application. Best would be to have your solenoid apart, see the actual shapes you need, and order based on that.
 
#11 ·
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#12 ·
You might want to test your battery also, just to be sure it's not a symptom of a weak battery.

Also, if it happens again, try to jiggle the key while it's in the START position to see if the starter then cranks. If the ignition switch is worn it could cause this, but probably only if you don't have a starter relay. Without a starter relay, the power to the starter solenoid goes directly through the ignition switch. I'm not sure which engine/trans combinations have a starter relay on 7th gens.

Having said all this, it's most likely the contacts.

I found the original bolts that hold the contacts had splines on them near the head which fit into the holes in the contacts. While this may provide better electrical contact, the downside of the splines is that when you attach the cable with the nut on the outside it will cause the contact to spin slightly inside the starter. I'm not sure if this is bad in the long term. The bolts in the rebuilt set have threads all the way to the head with no splines, so the contacts won't turn as much when the outer nuts are tightened.

Anyway, I hope that made sense and will make more sense once you take it apart and compare the parts.
 
#14 ·
You might want to test your battery also, just to be sure it's not a symptom of a weak battery.
My experience is that a weak battery will manifest itself one of three ways, none of which match what we're seeing.

If the battery is a little weak, then you get a slow crank. If it's very weak - essentially dead - then it's not strong enough to even throw the solenoid for a click.

In between the two, things are a little more interesting. The battery is strong enough to throw the solenoid, so you get a click. But it's not strong enough to hold the solenoid with the added load of the motor, so the solenoid releases. Then, without the load of the motor, it's strong enough to throw the solenoid so you get another click. Rinse. Repeat. You get a very quick succession of clicks which almost sound like some gear is stripped and still turning with something slipping over its teeth.
 
#18 ·
Toyota started selling rebuild kits for the contacts in the 90's (for those that like OEM). I guess they realized it's a common failure point. There are no rebuild kits listed for 6th gen Corollas. The starters are basically the same internally except the contacts might be different shapes. The newer contacts may have a larger contact area to wear slower. :dunno: The plunger is also available, but this usually wears slower because it spins around and wears evenly around the circumference.

You can see on these pages that the same parts are used in multiple Toyota models.

http://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~starter~kit~battery~terminal~28226-55050.html

http://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~starter~kit~motor~terminal~28226-74070.html

http://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~plunger~magnet~switch~28235-07010.html
 
#19 ·
Well, the starter has started on first attempt EVERY SINGLE TIME since the isolated incident that led to this thread. Hm. I still have the aftermarket repair kit sitting around. I might actually jump on the OE kit DrZ listed above here if I do end up rebuilding - I didn't initially realize it was available since only certain parts DB online have it listed.
 
#21 ·
It is two kits, one for each contact. I'm going to be ordering them in the next week hopefully once I finish my needed parts list, so I can post some pictures, but I'm pretty sure they come with the bolt, plastic insulators, washers, etc.

I'm curious to compare what your 93 Toyota repair manual and my 97 manual say about the contacts. I was pleased to see that Toyota addressed the issue of these contacts in my repair manual. They don't address them at all in the 90 repair manual. They devote 2.5 pages to "Magnetic Switch Terminal Kit Parts Replacement" in the 97 manual. Do you have the same section in your 93 repair manual?

The key points are they say when tightening the contacts to 12 ft-lbs to place a wooden block (20 x 37 x 40mm) against the contacts and press it with 221 lbs of force with a hand press. This is obviously Toyota's way of saying you need to have them be level after tightening. The other point is the outer nut holding the wire on is only tightened to 52 in-lbs (4.33 ft-lbs). If the outer nut were tightened more than the inner nut, it would cause the contact to twist and no longer be level.

When I had my 90 starter off, I connected the solenoid to the battery with the cover off. The plunger gets driven down with quite a bit of force, so much so that I have a hard time believing the worn contacts could prevent the starter from working. It may be that the plunger makes contact with a corner of one of the worn contacts instead of sitting flat, and not enough current can flow through such a small point.

And just a warning, iIf anyone tries my experiment of hooking it to the battery with the cover off, the plunger spring will cause the plunger to fly out when you disconnect the battery, so aim it away from yourself and hold your hand over the plunger so it doesn't fly out.
 
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#20 · (Edited)
i've replaced the contacts in two denso starters (97 corolla, 87 4runner). other than the starter removal, it is a very simple job.

the starters were identical, the contacts in the originals were different shaped, but i replaced each with a corresponding "correct as delivered" shaped contact set.

don't wait too long and leave yourself stranded. replace the contacts at your convenience instead.

wally
 
#25 ·
don't wait too long and leave yourself stranded. replace the contacts at your convenience instead.
You're right. I'll see when I can get to it. It's a lot nicer to turn wrenches before the freezing winter sets in. Now that I do know I can get OE parts though I want to get that kit. Just waiting to batch up some more parts so I can place an order with minimal or no shipping charges :)

It is two kits, one for each contact.
Yeah I meant kits plural.

I'm curious to compare what your 93 Toyota repair manual and my 97 manual say about the contacts. I was pleased to see that Toyota addressed the issue of these contacts in my repair manual. They don't address them at all in the 90 repair manual. They devote 2.5 pages to "Magnetic Switch Terminal Kit Parts Replacement" in the 97 manual. Do you have the same section in your 93 repair manual?
Interesting - my 93 is like your 90. Doesn't address the contacts, only the starter motor with brush replacement etc.

The key points are they say when tightening the contacts to 12 ft-lbs to place a wooden block (20 x 37 x 40mm) against the contacts and press it with 221 lbs of force with a hand press. This is obviously Toyota's way of saying you need to have them be level after tightening. The other point is the outer nut holding the wire on is only tightened to 52 in-lbs (4.33 ft-lbs). If the outer nut were tightened more than the inner nut, it would cause the contact to twist and no longer be level.
Hm, interesting.
 
#23 ·
You're probably OK to let it go. I did. Then when it got to the point where I had to whack the starter with a prybar to get it to spin over one day, I lazily and half-assedly grabbed one that night from O'Reilly's.

So you should still have hopefully at least a few hit's worth of starts, when it leaves you stranded in front of the school on a snowy day, where all of those other parents will see you, and the school will sic the county on you to try to get you proven unfit - Nightmare... Even if you get it to start, you will still have had to raise the hood in front of all of those people.

So much less worrisome with a manual transmission...
 
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#27 ·
I totally jinxed it as all of a sudden it happened a couple more times today.

Nothing is ruled out yet as I haven't had a chance to really investigate or diagnose. With 80+ k on the starter (lots of short tripping on those 80k) and the first one lasting 60k I am still assuming that's what's wrong. But I will test the battery and connections to be sure.
 
#28 ·
Did you have a lot of accessories on when it happened? Mine seemed to be worse about it if the headlights were on, or the HVAC fan was on high - which lead me to forestall messing with the starter, thinking it might be a cable or connection.
 
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#29 ·
Yes - AC and fan on high. Interesting.

I tested the battery - passed the load test on my little multimeter for what it matters. Voltage approximately 2 hrs after I drove the car last was 12.5 V. Not great but not bad. Terminals clean and connectors tight. Not much gunk between the terminals as I leaned with water and baking soda not that long ago.
 
#30 · (Edited)
I will say that mine hasn't ever done it again since I put on that O'Reilly's starter.

If you've got the time, I think I would remove the starter, and take a look at those contacts. Perhaps they can be "worked" in a manner so as to extract more life from them. But if they're totally shot, it would suck to not have new ones on hand.

McParts doesn't sell anything which would work? Just because they don't list anything online doesn't mean they don't have something. Best bet would be to ask a knowledgeable clerk there - the older, the better...
 
#32 ·
Did some more testing today. After dropping my child at school the battery measured 12.6V. Starting the car and idling fully warmed up and with AC on the voltage reading at the battery terminals was 14.18V. So I think the battery and alternator seem to work just fine.

The only thing I haven't done yet is checked the connections at the starter. I find it a bit unlikely that they'd come loose all of a sudden after so many years, but who knows.
 
#33 ·
The only thing I haven't done yet is checked the connections at the starter. I find it a bit unlikely that they'd come loose all of a sudden after so many years, but who knows.
The cable might've corroded, or frayed somewhere, or shrunk down inside a crimp.

And for what it's worth, I think the generic cables at McParts are kind of crap. But my money is still on those contacts...
 
#35 ·
95% sure it's probably the contacts going bad, so I'd feel comfortable taking the starter out at this point. If you still get the click/no-start after replacing the contacts, then you can investigate other things.

There is a remote possibility that you aren't getting enough current to the solenoid when you get the click. As an example, on my 90 Corolla, there is no starter relay on automatic trans models, and I was getting a click of the starter, but it was the ignition switch going bad. If I jiggled the key it would start, so the contacts in the ignition switch were wearing out. Enough current was going through to get a click, but the solenoid wasn't energized enough. I replaced it with a junkyard ignition switch and so far, so good.

All 7th gen models have a starter relay, so if the click persists after replacing the starter contacts, then you might want to investigate the relay.
 
#39 ·
well, you did, but that doesn't matter :) "those pesky contacts" etc, reside in a housing that is firmly attached to the starter housing, and cannot be removed easily without removing the starter. i removed my starter to replace the contacts. didn't need to lift the car to do so.
 
#40 ·
"Get to them" as "inspect them" to see if they are firmly attached - not "remove them". Which is possible once the car is in the air without removing the starter.

I must have been unclear in my statements then as I did not intend to imply a specific means to remove the starter one way or the other. My objective was simply to point out how relatively involved it is to inspect those contacts *without* removing the starter.

Anyhow - I do actually intend to put the car on ramps when I remove the starter. Might as well get the extra access even if it's possible to do without it.
 
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