How bad is-it to change brake lines and fuel lines

[hungt1999]

The 5 lines under my car are pretty much rusted, how difficult is-it to chagne the lines? ( 5 lines are : 2 for the rear left and right brakes, 1 for fuel main, 1 fuel return, 1 from tank to charcoal canister)

for the brake lines, how good are the Stainless steel flexible lines with the braided steel like those sold on ebay? I figured using flexible hoses are easier than rigid steel lines that need to be bent.

for the fuel lines, do I need to drop the tank ?

Also I heard that the front and rear hydraulic brake lines are independent, meaning that if there is a leak in one of the rear brake lines, the hydraulic for the front brakes will still fonction. Can anyone confirm this?

please share your experience if anyone has done this before

[Greasewrench]

iv'e only changed the flex rubber hoses on mine never the actual metal lines, but i can tell u that you'll want to soak the flare nut fittings in PB blaster and just let them sit for about an hour or more before u try to loosen them. u would have to buy those tube bending kits to bend the lines also. as far as the system goes i believe these models are diagonally split so u may have a problem in the right front brake if u have a leak in the left rear. either way i think you'd still have problems with any leak in the system, as the pedal will slowly sink to the floor if u have an external leak (or an internal one if your master cylinder piston seals are worn) i cant comment on fuel lines cuz ive never done 'em

[Flashmn]

They function somewhat, if you spring a leak, they function enough to stop the car, but not to drive along. I wouldnt run braided hoses in place of the metal lines, hardlines are there for a reason.

[hungt1999]

It seems the OEM hard brake lines are double-lined, as can be seen in the engine compartment near the master cylinders, all the lines there are smaller in diameter then it goes into a double sleeve and then run down with that constant diameter all the way to each wheel where they again, connect to short sections of rubber hoses going into each brake cylinder.

That is reassuring to know that they are double lined for some added rust protection

[titleist]

prepare to spend eight to ten hours to do the job properly. you will need a hoist. they toyota ones are a little more expensive, but pre bent and you won't need any special flaring/bending tools. the brake lines can be made/ the fuel lines cannot. what kind of car is it and what year will determine whether you have to drop the tank or not. most toyotas you don't. if you lose line pressure in one line, you don't want to be driving the car anywhere.

[hungt1999]

Update: what a strange timing that I was posting the question only a few days ago because I was concerned about my rusted brake lines!

Well, one of the rear brake line finally burst yesterday on my way home. I was only a few corners away from home when I had to press the brake harder than usal to stop at a red light, the pedal lost resistance and sunk to the floor. I immediately suspected my brakes. I was able to drive home safely, the brake still worked and I was able to stop at all stop signs even though the brake pedal sunk to the floor every stops.

At home upon inspection, I immediately saw brake fluid dripping into a large puddle under the car. I opened the hood and saw that the brake fluid level was way down the minimum level line in the brake fluid reservoir

So yesterday I raised the car, put on jack stands and started removing the rusted brake lines. It took me about 3 hours to remove the 2 rear lines. It is a bitch to remove them because I was not able to remove completly the plastic elbow cover where the lines turned from the firewall down into the rear of the car because of a strange location of a hold down bolt. This make it very hard to push-pull on the line to get them out of the car.

The other 3 gas/evap lines are also pretty much rusted. So I will also remove them tonite. I was not able to unscrew the fitting to the fuel filter, I might cut the line out with a pair of cutters and replace the fuel line altogether with a new fuel filter.

One last thing, contrary to what I thought, the brake lines are not double-lined in the horizontal section that runs under the car. In the upper part of the lines in the engine compartment and in the wheel wells, they are double-lined with a very hard plastic outer protection sleeve, those sections are not rusted and looked brand new. I don't know why toyota did not make it double-lined everywhere, especially at the most vulnerable part which is under the car. I am not impressed!

I phone my local Toyota dealer, here is the OEM prices

- rear left brake line: $97
- rear right brake line: $72
- fuel main line: $68
- fuel return line: $68
- fuel tank to charcoal canister line: $55
So a total of about $400 including tax if I go OEM

Autoparts store generic brake line: $25 for 25-ft roll and $40 flaring tool and a couple dollars per fitting.

So I might go OEM for the fuel lines and for the brake lines, go generic steel lines and make the bends and fittings myself. Anyway, if I go OEM pre-bent brake lines, I anticipate a lot of difficulty to route the pre-bent lines thought the tiny holes of the plastic elbow.

[Flashmn]

Except those generic flaring tools wont make the correct flare for toyota connectors.

[retiredat44]

Originally Posted by Flashmn

Except those generic flaring tools wont make the correct flare for toyota connectors.

metric flares??

[Flashmn]

Dooh.. no, but the "bubble flare". Most parts stores sell the kit that makes either single or double walled flares, but not the bubble flare, which I recall toyota brakelines having.

Its been a while since I've done toyota lines, so I'm not 100% on that, might be a regular double wall flare, in which case it should work I started second guessing myself.

Ones that look like this:

[Bitter]

psst a double flare is just a bubble flare inverted on itself, so to make a double you have to make a bubble first and thusly any kit that can double flare can bubble flare

anyways, toyota brake lines are double not bubble, fuel lines are either single or double i forget.

[hungt1999]

I bought the double flare kit, I practiced on a few scrap sections, it seems to be identical to the OEM flares

[hungt1999]

Question about steel brake lines:

I bought a roll of 25-ft steel brake line from an autoparts store. It only cost $9 so I find the cost is too good to be true. They said it is galvanized steel so it should not rust. I asked about stainless steel brake line but they did not carry any

Is there such a thing as galvanized brake line? do I need to paint it for rust protection?

Anyway, I am intending to brush a layer of thick grease over it once installed to protect against rust from the outside.

[Flashmn]

Painting helps, galvanized lines are what they have OEM. Grease wont help much as it will probably be washed off after the first rain drive. undercoating would help too. Its probably fine for the car. Copper nickel would of been better.

Stainless would of been alot more hassle than you would of wanted, very hard to bend and they tend to leak at the fittings, because the flares wont mold with the counterpart.