Well, i've posted before with no success so I figured i'll try again.
My girlfriend owns a 2000 Corolla with the 3sp auto and it has 125K miles. For about at least 8 months mostly at 65-70 the car "pings" like crazy! That is the best I can describe it, sounds like a metal ball bouncing around upon acceleration(even the the slightest acceleration). Recently it started doing it sometimes while getting up to speed, but not nearly as bad as the 65-70 ping. We've tried additives in the tank which help some but it's still there. So I assume it's something else.
Do these cars have a knock sensor or something similar? Not sure if it matters but the car also uses about 2 quarts of oil per 3000. We recently had the tranny serviced, cat and o2 sensors replaced(not related, just giving the recent history). The car runs well, but the pinging is driving us insane! (mostly me).
sounds like she has a two part problem going on. shes burning oil (probably stuck rings) which causes ALOT more carbon build up (and probably is what damaged the cat and O2 sensor). carbon build up will cause detonation. detonation WILL do some nasty damage to the engine if not taken care of. its literally like a bomb going off in the chamber as the piston is coming up and can not only erode away the piston but burn valves, crack pistons and heads, cause headgasket failure, or even burn a hole in the piston!
you need to do 2 things, adress the ping and adress the stuck rings.
1st run a compression test across all 4 cylinders and record the results.
for the rings try some 'snake oil'. get some seafoam and put 1/2 the bottle in the engine oil and idle it for 30 minutes then change the filter and oil.
run the compression test again and see if it improved any. if not then do the other half of the seafoam in the oil, let it idle for about 15 min, then drive it around gently, try to go up some inclines and load the engine without revving it hard. then change oil and filter, check compression. hopefully by this point it will have improved some.
now for the carbon....either you can get it out the easy way or you need to pull the head off and clean it manually. do the seafoam in the topend a couple times and see if it helps. if it doesnt you'll probably need to pull the head and clean the carbon out by hand. honestly, thats the best way to do it since you can inspect for damage.
then smack her around about not having her oil changed regularly, since thats what caused this whole mess to begin with!
sounds like she has a two part problem going on. shes burning oil (probably stuck rings) which causes ALOT more carbon build up (and probably is what damaged the cat and O2 sensor). carbon build up will cause detonation. detonation WILL do some nasty damage to the engine if not taken care of. its literally like a bomb going off in the chamber as the piston is coming up and can not only erode away the piston but burn valves, crack pistons and heads, cause headgasket failure, or even burn a hole in the piston!
you need to do 2 things, adress the ping and adress the stuck rings.
1st run a compression test across all 4 cylinders and record the results.
for the rings try some 'snake oil'. get some seafoam and put 1/2 the bottle in the engine oil and idle it for 30 minutes then change the filter and oil.
run the compression test again and see if it improved any. if not then do the other half of the seafoam in the oil, let it idle for about 15 min, then drive it around gently, try to go up some inclines and load the engine without revving it hard. then change oil and filter, check compression. hopefully by this point it will have improved some.
now for the carbon....either you can get it out the easy way or you need to pull the head off and clean it manually. do the seafoam in the topend a couple times and see if it helps. if it doesnt you'll probably need to pull the head and clean the carbon out by hand. honestly, thats the best way to do it since you can inspect for damage.
then smack her around about not having her oil changed regularly, since thats what caused this whole mess to begin with!
Surprisingly, the oil is changed every 3K! But......... she bought the car with 50 K on it, history unknown. I suspect the previous owner/s didn't take care of it as they should have. Those seem like good suggestions and i will try them as soon as possible. Next week, we are taking the car to her cousin who has a shop. I will tell him to run compression tests, etc. As far as causing damage, I've heard that before which is why I want to address this because this car has to last her for a couple of more years.
Depending where you live, try Shell V power or the highest octane top tier gas you can find and add some fuel cleaner (Techron, Redline Sl-1, or Regane are excellent). Or try BP ultimate gas if you don't have Shell. The higher octane will not hurt your car. If it still pings, check your spark plugs, wires, and O2 sensor(s) like bitter said, and possibly your fuel filter. If any vacuum lines were knocked off that could cause the problem, or if you have a egr valve not functioning. If the higher octane gas doesn't fix it, it sounds like you need new plugs. NGK makes excellent plugs and wires. Were the new O2 sensors OEM or aftermarket? That could also be your problem.
Depending where you live, try Shell V power or the highest octane top tier gas you can find and add some fuel cleaner (Techron, Redline Sl-1, or Regane are excellent). Or try BP ultimate gas if you don't have Shell. The higher octane will not hurt your car. If it still pings, check your spark plugs, wires, and O2 sensor(s) like bitter said, and possibly your fuel filter. If any vacuum lines were knocked off that could cause the problem, or if you have a egr valve not functioning. If the higher octane gas doesn't fix it, it sounds like you need new plugs. NGK makes excellent plugs and wires. Were the new O2 sensors OEM or aftermarket? That could also be your problem.
The car had a tune-up about 25K ago, but I guess that wouldn't hurt. Not sure about the o2 sensors? I'm going to try higher octane gas next fillup, we use shell all the time but just the 87. So if after her cousin looks at it and if he can't figure it out, then I'll do the seafoam thing and replace the plugs. If that doesn't work then I guess I'll have to dig deeper.
As far as the way we drive it, it's about an equal amount of city/highway. Even if we did drive mostly city, that would suck if that was the cause
Thanks,
Mike
Last edited by 2000corollaaz; 09-27-2007 at 11:40 PM.
I'm surprised no one said the obvious...what about a bad knock sensor?
the corolla's engine has a 10:1 compression ratio and would blow itself apart if the computer wasn't constantly adjusting ignition timing. That pulls outstanding power and efficiency out of the engine...but you'll catch it knocking all the time as the computer tries to find the right timing.
yours seems to be knocking ALL the time, maybe the sensor is bad. it's a $200 part, so I would check out all of the cheap easy stuff first. Or maybe your cousin can test the knock sensor, I don't know his capabilities.
I'll agree with bitter on the oil consumption though, that is unreasonable. 0.5-1.0qt's per 3000 miles is about normal. you're about double the normal rate.
as far as higher octane fuel, that's a band aid. Your car should run exactly the same on regular as on premium. if it doesn't, that again points to bad electronics in my mind.
and I just want to point out to everyone that city driving is not satan's wrath on engines. people always look at "wear per mile", when they should really look at "wear per operation hour". hour to hour, highway and city driving cause similar wear...just you get a lot more miles out of highway driving.
all of my cars have had nearly 100% city driving for their entire lifespan, and none burn oil or anything else. one of my cars is at 220,000 and ticking. Of course, people look at the classic city drivers, like taxi drivers and pizza guys, as reference to what city driving does to cars. but they drive HARD, ALL day. they would destroy their cars driving like that on the highway too!
edit: i should note that I also have a 2000 corolla, 5spd manual though. (138,000 miles, good stuff).
I'm surprised no one said the obvious...what about a bad knock sensor?
the corolla's engine has a 10:1 compression ratio and would blow itself apart if the computer wasn't constantly adjusting ignition timing. That pulls outstanding power and efficiency out of the engine...but you'll catch it knocking all the time as the computer tries to find the right timing.
yours seems to be knocking ALL the time, maybe the sensor is bad. it's a $200 part, so I would check out all of the cheap easy stuff first. Or maybe your cousin can test the knock sensor, I don't know his capabilities.
I'll agree with bitter on the oil consumption though, that is unreasonable. 0.5-1.0qt's per 3000 miles is about normal. you're about double the normal rate.
as far as higher octane fuel, that's a band aid. Your car should run exactly the same on regular as on premium. if it doesn't, that again points to bad electronics in my mind.
and I just want to point out to everyone that city driving is not satan's wrath on engines. people always look at "wear per mile", when they should really look at "wear per operation hour". hour to hour, highway and city driving cause similar wear...just you get a lot more miles out of highway driving.
all of my cars have had nearly 100% city driving for their entire lifespan, and none burn oil or anything else. one of my cars is at 220,000 and ticking. Of course, people look at the classic city drivers, like taxi drivers and pizza guys, as reference to what city driving does to cars. but they drive HARD, ALL day. they would destroy their cars driving like that on the highway too!
edit: i should note that I also have a 2000 corolla, 5spd manual though. (138,000 miles, good stuff).
Yeah, I mentioned that up in the first post(knock sensor), but wasn't sure if that could be it? But that was my original thought. Well, we are taking it in next friday or saturday and I'll let you know how it goes. I'll be sure to tell him to check the knock sensor now that you mentioned it as well.
if it were a knock sensor fault the PCM wouldnt just try to find the right timing, it would retard it to safe mode and the car would run rich and slow with a CEL. it sounds more like theres knock due to a problem and the pcm is trying to retard timing, it does so, but maybe cant pull enough timing away to stop the knock. knock isnt always caused by higher compression from carbon buildup, but also can be caused by the carbon buildup turning into a glowing spot of heat like a glowplug which lights off the fuel/air mix at the wrong time. if you get any predetonation you'll probably suffer some severe engine damage, thats what melts holes in pistons. knock is like a hammer beating everything, predetonation is like a torch.
if it were a knock sensor fault the PCM wouldnt just try to find the right timing, it would retard it to safe mode and the car would run rich and slow with a CEL. it sounds more like theres knock due to a problem and the pcm is trying to retard timing, it does so, but maybe cant pull enough timing away to stop the knock. knock isnt always caused by higher compression from carbon buildup, but also can be caused by the carbon buildup turning into a glowing spot of heat like a glowplug which lights off the fuel/air mix at the wrong time. if you get any predetonation you'll probably suffer some severe engine damage, thats what melts holes in pistons. knock is like a hammer beating everything, predetonation is like a torch.
Well, don't know if it helps but sometimes when the car is cold, you'll step on the gas and it won't move for a second and then start going. Other times it will go in and out like it has gas and doesn't, also usually when the car is cold.
Often times you wont even hear knock inside the cabin... seriously theres ALOT of misinformation in this thread, QUIT scaring him.
1) Possibly a loose heatshield (exhaust manifold, cat converter)
2) Busted cat/muffler
3) Possibly old plugs
And alot more possibilities,
Change the fuel filter first and check the vacuum hoses.
Shell V power is just full of marketing bullshit, its nothing more special than any other high octane gasoline. I personally dont buy that stuck ring stuff, I've seen piston rings in various conditions in various cars, even after detonation. I've never seen them stuck, unless piston was damaged by detonation so that it squished all the rings in the lands.
I havent bothered to investigate, because I've done just fine with "regular" fuel. I dont need "ferrari" fuel in my car. Consdering too much detergents dont really do anything special if the engine is running properly. My 4A-F looks brand spanking new on the inside and cylinders looked just fine. Mainly shell does alot of marketing, as do alot of other oil companies too.
...then again I have less than 70,000km on the engine and its the original lump.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
ToyotaNation.com is an independent Toyota/Lexus enthusiast website. ToyotaNation.com is not sponsored by or in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. The Toyota, Lexus and Scion names and logos are trademarks owned by Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.
).
Linear Mode
