Half axle to transaxle; should there be play?

[photo-van]

After extensive searching here and on the web, I still haven't a definitive answer to this:

Is it normal on a 2000 Corolla for there to be LATERAL play at the axle/trans connection? Not in and out, and not "in the joint". Up and down and side to side.

That's question #2. I got here trying to figure out question #1:

Why does my Corolla INTERMITTENTLY shimmy/wobble (to the point of uncontrollable) when brakes are applied HEAVILY? Also I just noticed that the inboard edge of my front tire has worn excessively in an out of round manner.

So maybe this is all related, maybe not?

[fishexpo101]

For question #1 - Since you load the front end (weight transfer forward under heavy braking), you are also slightly altering the dynamic alignment up front. Since the inside edges of the tires are worn more, that would throw off the braking as the contact patch is not uniform. Corolla alignment is pretty forgiving, as the car can drive pretty much straight as an arrow on the highway and still have a slight alignment issue.

Another possibility is the pads cannot take the heat / rotors cannot dissipate the heat under those braking conditions - that will cause the brake transfer layer to be unevenly deposited on the friction surfaces causing that wobbly / shaky braking. Movement in the sliding caliper mount and other brake components can also attribute to this wobbly / shaky behavior. Sticking caliper, flex in braking components, expanding brake line (uneven line pressure), uneven brake wear (inboard pad tends to wear faster than the outboard pad on a sliding caliper system) - those can all cause the symptoms you are describing. Seems to vary from car to car - some much worse than others. Typical in cars of this class - as their braking systems tend to be smaller and lighter. Could also be a combination issue, not just solely related to the brake system - just happens to manifest under heavy braking.

Front end shimmy / shaking - also can cause uneven tire wear
- Brake rotor(s) warped - friction material improperly bedded in
- Tire(s) excessively worn - improperly inflated
- Wheel out of balance
- Excessively worn struts
- Wheel alignment off
- Worn ball joint
- Worn wheel bearing
- Excessive slop in steering linkage / steering gear
- Worn suspension parts

Is the wear on the tire pretty even (just rounded off the tire), or does the leading and trailing tread blocks see to be at different heights? Signs of scalloping of the tires (wavy wear pattern)?

For question #2 - some play that is inline with the axle (in and out) is normal. If it moves up and down, side to side - might be cause for concern depending on how much it moves. Does the car make a "clunking" noise as you shift into gear? How about clunking noises at cruise - coasting and then just slightly adding some gas? For comparison - both my 2002 Corolla and 2003 Matrix had a little play inline with the axle, but very little in the other directions (pushed hard on it and moved just a fraction of a mm) - both cars had well over 100K miles at the time.

[photo-van]

The tire wear isn't scalloped, but it is out of round (worn more in some parts of the circumference.) The tires were new 10,000 miles ago. Uneven wear is only on the front left.

There is quite a lot of play at the axle (1/4 to 1/2 inch).

There is no noise other than a clunky rattle in the front end when driving slow (5 mph) on rough roads

There is one other symptom that is VERY odd: The car tracks straight cruising on the highway, upon acceleration the car pulls to the right, upon deceleration the car pulls to the left.

[pdq]

The clunky rattle on slow speed bumps is usually bad sway bar end links. But those would not affect your tires or tracking.

[fishexpo101]

1/4 to 1/2 play is a lot. Might be looking to replace those axles some time soon.

Pulling one way on acceleration and pulling the other way on deceleration, while still tracking straight and true with the driveline out of it - could be from tire mismatch (one tire has more tread than another), mismatch tire pressure (most common), or a differential issue (could be wind up from the worn axles).

[photo-van]

I would change the axles out today if I were convinced they are the problem. But since the play isn't in the joint, I'm thinking that the problem may be in the trans. I'm unsure of what suports the axle inboard of the joint as I haven't been able to find any cutaways or details of that area of the transaxle.

Esp. with the R and L pull; tires are (were) new and equally inflated, I'm starting to get concerned it maybe a trans issue. Wondering too if the braking wobble could also be a symptom of this excess play.

[sam333]

It would seem impossible for you to have that much play. The metal dust seal on tha half shaft would hit on the trans case and your oil seal would be wiped out and leaking everywhere. Your trans would be making a huge amount of noise IF it would even drive. Your differential and or differential side bearings would have to be trashed.

Have you actually jacked up the car with enough room to get underneath and really see what is going on?

[photo-van]

yes, I had it up on blocks, both wheels off. Crawled under there, lots of room. Checked every thing. No noticeable play in ball joints, tierod ends or CVJs. The axles move a LOT at the transaxle. I didn't actually measure it so I may be exaggerating some. But it doesn't seem like they should move much at all.

I agree re the seals, I was wondering how they could possibly be working, but then again perhaps they aren't, as it is pretty "wet" (ATF) around there.

Another note is that there was significantly more play on R side of the tierod (at the rack) then the left (just another front end ?)

Thanks all for the response

[photo-van]

ok. I jacked it up again and measured the play. Out at the end of the inboard CV joint housing (at the boot) the play is ~3/16", so it's less at the transmission. Normal?

Tie rod play is 1/16"+

[ScoopDL]

I have the same problem as you - I hear a rattle from my front passenger side of my 2002 Corolla when hitting bumps, and hear a noise and shudder when braking, almost like a warped rotor. It also pulls occasionally when braking. The play on the axle at the transaxle is much larger than on the driver's side and much more than on my cousin's 1998 Corolla (but his axle appears different than mine). Also, when I push on the axle where it meets the transaxle, I hear a sucking noise from the transaxle. I've already replaced the axle and the play and noise remains. I've been told by a trans shop that it's a bad bearing in the transaxle, a friend of mine says it sounds like warped rotors, but I don't want to spend any more money trying to fix the wrong part. Anyone have any idea about what might be causing this?

[photo-van]

I haven't fixed mine yet. My play is similar on both sides, though other symptoms sound very similar; rattle, etc.
I think it could be a host of issues, but the un-controllable braking is the most disconcerting. Rotors are pretty cheap so I think I'll try that first.

[ScoopDL]

I'm probably just going to end up at the dealer - at least then if they fix something that isn't causing the problem I won't have to pay for it.

[sam333]

I know what you mean now,if you push on the axel right where it enters the trans, no movement , but if you push on the axle just a few inches out there is alot. Your side gears /pinion gears are worn. I just had to replace mine. The trans was making a humming/ whirring noise in all gears and my gear oil was dark after a 300 miles ( had very fine, black metal in it).My milage was down due to the bad gears also.

[ilovecorollale]

Mine is just as photo-van mentioned about with the inner shaft that connects to the trans and that theres more play on the right than my left and when i drive at 60+ mph i can feel the steering wheel vibrating more on the right side than on the left side, so this maybe due to that bad shaft.
Is there any bearings in the trans where the shaft connects to the trans??

[sam333]

The vibration could be caused by alot of

things besides the trans.

I knew I had a problem with mine because of the noise and fine vibration that could be felt through the floorboards and steering wheel( that and listening to the trans with an auto stethoscope and the fine metal in my gear oil). The play was the greatest on the passenger side ( I assume because of the greater shaft length / vibration).Both sides were bad though.

I have two other toyotas with over 250000 miles on both and the shafts on those have no or very little play.

There are two side bearings ( one on each side) that support the differential case. The axle goes through them but it is not supported by them, the ends of the drive shafts fit into the splines of the side gears and is supported by them.

My side bearings were fine ,but my side and pinion gears wear worn out. I only replaced those and the side gear and pinion thrust washers and the trans works great now ( no noise/vibration or dirty oil).