Tire width/number - 195 instead of 185

[cor06]

I got new set of 4 tires for my 06 corolla CE. The (OEM) tires that came with the car were Goodyear 185/65/R15. I got the tires from discount tires. I am not sure if they made a mistake or what. When I came back to my house and took a close look of the tires the numbers on the tires is 195/65/R15. The difference is only in tire width (195 instead of 185). The numbers are so small and dim that it is hard of figure out.

My main concern is if this will have any adverse effect on driving safety or car? Other than that any other pos and cons.

Thanks for the help.

[JasonA]

Those tires are a hair wider, and actually a hair taller as well. This is how you read a tire size:

195/65R15

195: the section width in millimeters. This is the "section width", or the widest part of the tire, at the "bulge". Not the tread width. The tread width will necessarily be a little bit narrower than the section width, just because of how a tire's shape curves in near the shoulders of the tire (the edge of the tread). In this case, the section width is 195mm, or about 7.7".

65: the height of the sidewall, as a ratio of the section width. In this case, the height of the sidewall of the tire is 65% of the section width, or about 127mm or 5".

R15: meaning "Radial" in construction and made to fit a 15" diameter wheel.

You can figure out the nominal height of the tire by taking the sidewall height, multiplying it by 2 (since you will measure "two" sidewalls in the total height of the tire), and adding the rim diameter. In this case, 5" + 5" + 15" = 25".

Now you can see that a 185/65R15 (the original size for your car) is a bit narrower AND a bit shorter, even though the 65% hasn't changed. Namely, the nominal height for a 185/65R15 is 24.5". Your 195/65R15s are actually about 0.4" wider AND 0.5" taller.

Now, will that make any difference in your car? Not a lick. The LE models came with the exact same 15x6 steel wheels that your CE has, and they came with the 195/65R15 tires. So you know the tires fit the wheels fine and run good on the car (since Toyota used that size on a different trim).

So yes, Discount Tire DID make a mistake. At worst, I'd go mention it to them that they need to tighten up their QA/QC a little bit because their techs are installing the "wrong" size tires on folks' cars. Although the size will work just fine, it was not the original size for your car and they should have at least gotten your permission first. There are a better selection of tires in the 195/65R15 size, so it's not really a bad thing...just poor customer involvement at worst.

Just out of curiosity, what brand/model tire did you get, and are you happy with it so far?

[cor06]

I have some other obligations to take care so did not want to spend on brand names and I am not a fan of brand names either. I bought Falken SN 828 (made for Discount tires) by Falken. The tires look and feel good. The specificatios are also ok. So far driven only 50 miles and feel good. Can't say for future after putting more miles. I was checking the price and 195 are expensive than 185 so not a bad deal.

Jason you seem to know more so I have another question. Last year I had alignment issues with the rear wheels. The dealership installed shims in both rear wheels in July 2008. Now after getting new tires I had alignment checked again and the rear camber is off (-2.1 actual, -2.1 before) (specificed range is -2.0 -1.0). The dealership has 12 months warranty for labor and parts so I think they should fix this alignment again for free.

My main concern is WHAT is the PERMANENT soultion to this issue. Last year I spent $200 for re-alignment. Is this a common problem with many corollas or my car is unique.

AND when a car is called a LEMON?

Thanks if you can suggest something that will help me deal with the dealership.

[JasonA]

The specs I show for an '07 Corolla, for the rear camber alignment is this:

CAMBER
-1.45 deg +/- 0.5 deg

So it does look like you're barely out of adjustment (too much camber). It seems that some dealerships will tell you that camber can be adjusted by shims, and some won't use shims. The only method for adjusting alignment, according to the factory service manual, is replacement of the axle beam. This is what it says verbatim:

"HINT: Camber is not adjustable. If the measurement is not within the specified range, inspect the suspension parts for damage and/or wear, and replace them if necessary."

It's possible that the axle beam has gotten bent. It's possible that was manufactured wrong from the get-go. Either way, I'm not sure I'd worry that much about it; you're only out by a fifteenth of a degree. For sure I'd take it back to the dealership (which dealership was this?) because you've already spent $200 on it, but if they say that axle beam replacement is the only option, and that is what the service manual says, I'd forget about the alignment spec and just keep driving. Are the tires wearing funny? Is there any indication to you that it's not aligned right, other than what the sheet says?

As far as being a lemon, lemon laws will vary by state, but in general, this is how it works...

The dealer has 1 attempt to fix a problem that is immediately dangerous to life/health/safety. Like losing brakes. If the same problem occurs twice, you generally have the option of lemon law protection.

The dealer has 3 attempts to fix a problem that takes the car out of service. For example, my parents had to return a vehicle using lemon law protection when the rear differential failed repeately. It'd get hot, burn up, and the dealer would replace it. That happened about 5 times and they eventually got tired of it. The dealer even swapped entire rear axle housings once, but that didn't fix it.

I'm very sure you don't have any recourse against Toyota, at least using the lemon law, for an alignment issue that can't even be proven to be Toyota's fault. You or a previous owner could have smacked a curb with it during a snow storm or something. Even if you're the original owner and know that's never happened, that really can't be proven in court. In other words, "alignment" is considered a "wear" item, and is subject to road and driving hazards just like picking up a nail in a tire is.

The ultimate solution for the rear alignment problem would be swapping rear axle beams. This is a hard piece of metal...it shouldn't be continually going out of alignment. If the dealer can fix it with shims, it should stay fixed...again, unless something is bent or weak or fatigued (not likely). The dealer likely corrected toe with the shims, but not camber. The service manual does not say that toe is not adjustable (like the camber), but it doesn't say that it's not either. Kind of vague there.

[cor06]

Thanks Jason - from where do you get the factory service manual. I took my car to the dealership. The story is. I took my car to Just tires and Firestone and both told me that its mis-aligned. Just tires (only rear camber). Firestone (front left and rear left Toe). Don't trust the Firestone as they wanted me to get the alignment fixed if they fine something. Just tires did a free check up. I took it to Fred Anderson Toyota. Their report is all clear (all green) no problem. I took it to my dealership (Leith Toyota). They also found no problem. I am confused as I do not trust the dealerships to the 100% because I have the impression that they try to avoid too much complications and an ignorant customer is to their benefit. I am not sure. I talked to the Service Manager and asked options but he said his machine is latest and they have spent $$$ so it is more accurate. Now I have new tires so I will see what happens to them.

I was also getting squeaking noise from the belt/tensioner and my car was still under warranty so they replaced the belt/tensioner for free. I still have 2 months of warranty left.

[JasonA]

I would ask for a printout of the alignment numbers for your car. Every machine can print out a paper depicting all the alignment numbers. You'll know for sure whether it's good or not. If someone is telling you it's good, it's probably good, because they're missing a sale if it's really out of alignment. The fix is apparently replacing the axle beam to fix rear camber. That'd be some good money for the dealership if you paid for that. On the other hand, to whom did you pay the $200 to fix the alignment?

How do you like Leith and Fred Anderson? I bought mine from Hendrick Toyota down here in Fayetteville and have (so far) found them to be top-notch. Compared to Crown Dodge and Hendrick Chrysler (same Hendrick organization!), Hendrick Toyota is head and shoulders above the rest. The only dealer that competes for my "best dealer" award is a Cadillac dealer back in Virginia.

For the factory service manual, I'm on alldatadiy.com. Great resource. I have a subscription for all of my vehicles on there.

[cor06]

I do not like either one.. Both are typical dealerships and I do not find them helping. I bought my corolla from Leith so I go to them. In 2005 when i first strted looking for a new car I went to Fred Anderson and they were selling the CE for ~ $18K and in 2006 I bought the same CE for ~ $2K less.

The shims were installed by Leith Toyota and now I went to them again after getting new tires. So I am not sure if they would tell me the correct thing. I assume they were telling me that alignment is correct to avoid any further troubles and going into warranty issues. The printout for alignment that they showed me is all green and within specs but I am not sure if this is all automatic and cannot be tweaked by the operator of the alignment machine.

I have to go again for oil change and I will ask them to check the alignment again. I talked to the service manager about axle beam option but he ruled out that option that said they will check the beam in the next service. I am sure they do not want to go that far.

Thanks for suggestions