umm i know this is off topic but i think we need to encourage it
ive been doing some reasearch on the new 10th gen corollas and apparently toyota has made the next gen worse, a lot worse...... i really like my 9th gen and when this thing dies i would like for my next 1 to be an improvment.......
heres some stats
9th gen(05')--------------------------------10th gen(09')
weight: 2595(curb) --------------------------2952(curb)
econ: s high(mpg):38 city(mpg):30 ----high(mpg):35 city(mpg):27
-----xrs ----------34----------27---------------30-----------22
power: s 1.8L/130-hp/125-lb-ft--------1.8L/132-hp/128-lb-ft
------xrs 1.8L/172-hp/125-lb-ft--------2.4L/158-hp/128-lb-ft
hp/lb: s 19.96lb/hp----------------------------22.36lb/hp
-----xrs 15.087lb/hp --------------------------18.68lb/hp
so teqnically speaking if i added 10 hp to my 9th gen corolla s....... it would equate to 18.535lb/hp making my 9th gen corolla s faster than a 10th gen xrs?????
ive test driven a 10th gen corolla s and there was more body rol, more dbw lag, steering lagged, stereo was ok, suspension unchanged, seemed a little more roomier but that was about it...
Toyota/Honda: They're no longer worried about beating the American "Big Three" and have stopped over engineering their cars (like they did in the 80s). Now they want to save a few bucks and... well, we all see the results.
The EPA estimates for the '05 S posted and the '09 are done using different test methods. The EPA has updated the numbers for all 2007 and previous model years to estimate what those numbers would be if tested under the newer program.
EPA original numbers:
2005 with automatic: 30/38
2005 with manual: 32/41
EPA revised numbers:
2005 with automatic: 26/35
2005 with manual: 28/37
EPA estimates:
2009 1.8L with automatic: 27/35
2009 1.8L with manual: 26/35
So as you can see, the EPA mileage for a 1.8L 2009 model with an automatic is the same on the highway and actually a point higher than a similar 2005 model. And the manual is a bit lower in 2009, but now as much as it looks on the surface.
Also, power/weight ratio isn't everything. Gearing and the shape and curve of the engine's powerband also plays a bit part. For example, the power/weight ratio of a 2005 S with an automatic is nearly identical to a 2005 S with a manual, but one with a manual is MUCH much faster.
As with any generational change, I'm sure there're a lot of improvements on the 10th gen that don't show up in numbers. Things like refinement, quiet, body rigidity, etc. That stuff adds weight. There's a fine line between refinement and weight and everyone's opinion of what the right line is will be different. A Radio Flyer wagon is REAL light, but you'd have a lot of road noise with that... Most reviews I've read of the new generation comment on a quieter ride and a more "solid" feel to the car. I would have no reason to doubt that. Just as the 9th generation was an improvement over the 8th generation, and the 8th generation was an improvement over the 7th generation, I'm sure the 10th generation is an improvement over the 9th. Even though typically, owners of any given generation will think that what they have is the best. When you go into a comparison or test with a particular conclusion in mind, you most often do come to that conclusion.
The EPA estimates for the '05 S posted and the '09 are done using different test methods. The EPA has updated the numbers for all 2007 and previous model years to estimate what those numbers would be if tested under the newer program.
EPA original numbers:
2005 with automatic: 30/38
2005 with manual: 32/41
EPA revised numbers:
2005 with automatic: 26/35
2005 with manual: 28/37
...
So the fact that I get 31-33 mpg combined on my automatic 2005 Corolla is really very good then! Recently I have actually been getting just over 35mpg combined. I just changed the oil though ... the car always likes new oil ...
As with any generational change, I'm sure there're a lot of improvements on the 10th gen that don't show up in numbers. Things like refinement, quiet, body rigidity, etc. That stuff adds weight. There's a fine line between refinement and weight and everyone's opinion of what the right line is will be different. A Radio Flyer wagon is REAL light, but you'd have a lot of road noise with that... Most reviews I've read of the new generation comment on a quieter ride and a more "solid" feel to the car. I would have no reason to doubt that. Just as the 9th generation was an improvement over the 8th generation, and the 8th generation was an improvement over the 7th generation, I'm sure the 10th generation is an improvement over the 9th. Even though typically, owners of any given generation will think that what they have is the best. When you go into a comparison or test with a particular conclusion in mind, you most often do come to that conclusion.
Maybe in terms of NVH levels. However, that is only one of many factors that can be compared, and there are always exceptions. Overall I don't really consider early 8th generation cars to be an improvement over the 7th generation as the suspension setup was essentially carried over. On earlier non-VVTi equipped 8th gens had oil burning issues. Interior space was also less compared to the 7th gen. Keep in mind that the Japanese economy was booming at the time the 7th generation was designed and Toyota spared no expense at improving all aspects of the Corolla under Chief Engineer Dr. Akihito Saito. It was the car that ultimately got him promoted the Board of Directors.
From an enthusiast standpoint, the 9th gen XRS equipped with the 2ZZ-GE powerplant represented the pinnacle of Corolla performance.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBO Das Automagazin
A BRZ, a curvy mountain road makes one liter of happiness hormones.
From an enthusiast standpoint, the 9th gen XRS equipped with the 2ZZ-GE powerplant represented the pinnacle of Corolla performance.
I don't disagree with that. But the original poster is talking about fuel economy, ride/handling, interior room, etc. The fuel economy complaint is moot, and the complaint about weight was brought up without recognizing WHAT the weight is. Toyota didn't just put a lead block in the trunk...
Whether anyone thinks the 10th gen is better or the 9th gen is better is fine. Everyone will have their own opinion. But in a factual discussion about what increased and decreased and why, I think it's important to tell both sides of the story.
So the fact that I get 31-33 mpg combined on my automatic 2005 Corolla is really very good then! Recently I have actually been getting just over 35mpg combined.
That's great for an automatic-equipped model. It was recognized that the "old" test didn't accurately reflect how cars were driven on modern roads. For example, acceleration rates were pretty slow, and the A/C was not even used during the test, which can lower fuel economy by a moderate amount. The current estimate is supposed to be a much more accurate representation of what you can reasonably expect.
This is why you can't compare the economy shown on the window sticker of a 2007 model vs. a 2008 model. My 2007's window sticker shows 32/41 for the mileage. I could look at a 2008 or 2009 model and say, "26/35, that sucks", but those numbers were not achieved using the same test procedure, so it's an apples-to-oranges comparison.
31-33 combined for an automatic-equipped car is bang-on in the middle of the scale, so I'd say it's right where it should be.
In terms of performance, yes the 9th Gen is clearly better. My opinions as stated!
The 10th Gen has been overlooked by most of the major automotive magazines because it brings nothing new to the table. All the new buyers guides say the same basic things: More interior room and new engines being the 2ZR-FE (1.8L) and 2AZ-FE (2.4L) with great fuel economy. Reviews have stated that if you want something remotely fun to drive you would be better off with a Honda Civic or Mazda 3. “But performance, clearly, is not what Corolla buyers care about.” Car and Driver: 2009 Toyota Corolla Short Take Road Test. While that statement applies to a vast majority of Corolla owners, I feel most of us would at least like a car with equal or better performance of it predecessor.
The 10th Gen XRS is by far the biggest disappointment of the new Corolla line up. This is by no means the sporty model it once was. Toyota has geared this car so that it’s a volume production car, making the car easier to drive with a 2.4L (2AF-FE) engine borrowed from the Camry and the option of an automatic transmission. I believe this was conservative step that missed. The XRS (let alone any model with sporty intentions) should have never been equipped with a FE engine. Can you imagine if the top of the line Celica had a FE engine? Wait I believe that’s called a Scion tC!
I guess we have to wake up now and face the fact that Toyota will never design a car that’s a riot to drive anymore, just ones that sip fuel.
well i can't say much on the powerbands but still if a cars faster, its faster. and gas milage, i guess ill have to rent one for the weekend, drive off to somewhere obsured and see how much gas milage (actual) i get from driving in the same conditions and driving style as i would my 9th gen. you know reset the ECU, get it used to econo driving then go on a trip, shouldnt take more than 2 days of continuous driving.
i was pointing out wieght and preformance, because well. heavier cars stop slower and when i get stuck in a tight situtation i like to have the option to get out of an accident. preformance, well thats just for fun (edit: phh yeah i know the 9th gen corollas stopped a little slower but they didnt have anti-lock brakes, if so they probably would stop a lot faster....)
and dont listen to the braking distances toyota posts...... im sorry but corollas stock come with crappy tires. After you've used them up pick something different than OEM tires lol. because any car will stop better with good tires
ohh yeah and a post from JasonA
EPA revised numbers:
2005 with automatic: 26/35
2005 with manual: 28/37
26 city? ive never gotten lower than 29 just around town... ive only achieved lower than 29 all city driving when me and my friend got our first cars and we raced our little econo boxes around town every day lol. but that happens when ur 16 and triple digit speeds are tempting lol..... and thats all i have to say about that
Last edited by impulseRED; 08-30-2009 at 07:03 PM.
Reason: forgot to add something.. lol sry guys
26 city? ive never gotten lower than 29 just around town... ive only achieved lower than 29 all city driving when me and my friend got our first cars and we raced our little econo boxes around town every day lol. but that happens when ur 16 and triple digit speeds are tempting lol..... and thats all i have to say about that
As they say, "your mileage may vary." And that's literally what that means.
I've never gotten less than 32 MPG on a tank in mine. But that doesn't invalidate any EPA testing. If you're going to compare fuel mileage estimates, you've got to compare apples to apples. Though it has its faults, the EPA testing program is the only standardized test we have right now.
Too many variables to even list here affect mileage. Including elevation, terrain, traffic, temperatures, driving styles, how much you coast, tire pressures, tire rubber composition, even the types of road surface, etc.
Edit: my only point in replying to the first post was this statement: "apparently toyota has made the next gen worse, a lot worse". There was no qualification to that statement at all. If you're talking solely about performance (a la XRS model), then I agree. If you're talking about what makes the Corolla the best selling vehicle of all time, in the entire world, then I disagree. There are a lot of vehicle needs out there; acceleration and boy-racing is just one of them. In terms of a satisfying day-to-day commuter, which is what we all know that 99.5% of Corollas are (mine certainly included), I'm sure the 10th gen model is at least as "good" as the 9th gen model. And in many cases, I'm sure "better".
well juust for kicks the only "vehicle" that sells more is a cheap a** motorcycle in asia, 120mil and counting , i may be wrong on the numbers but i do know its A LOT lol.....
well if the 10th gens engine proves more reliable in total miles than the 9th gen i will be satisfied.
either way from my research the corolla is still the best in fuel economy of its class , and its forgiving suspension is widley appreciated by its owners.
corollas are still great cars im not doubting that
and has any1 done reseach on the Super CVT-i transmission used in japan for its corollas?
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(edit: phh yeah i know the 9th gen corollas stopped a little slower but they didnt have anti-lock brakes, if so they probably would stop a lot faster....)
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