Rear Brake Pads

[dvd7e]

I've got a 2007 Corolla LE with 53k miles. Changed the front brake pads ~20,000 miles ago myself, and a guy at the shop said I've got 10 mm left on the front pads, so that's pretty good. He said only 4 mm left on the rear pads though. I'm wondering...

a) What is the difficulty level of changing the rear's vs. the front pads? I changed the front pads myself the first time (well, my Dad was teaching me) and that went well enough.
b) What's the thickness level of new rear pads? For example, I think front's are ~11-12 mm when new, so at 10 mm my fronts are still early in life. I'm wondering if rears have the same initial thickness.
c) How often do Brake Shoes, Brake Drums, etc need to be replaced? And how difficult are those to replace?
d) Bonus Question: What are peoples thoughts on the usefulness/value of repair manuals, like Haynes or Chiltons.

Thanks!

[hardtopte72]

Your rear is drum brakes. 4MM is nearly brand new (new is 5mm-6mm depending on the car) on drum brakes especially tiny drums like on a 9th gen corolla. No need to replace them. Remember the car is FWD so the front of the car has the bulk of the weight and does 80% of the braking. Drum brakes normally last over 100000 miles. Just remember to clean and adjust them regularly (every 10-15k miles) and make sure the backing plate is lubed so you do not have any squeaks or rattles when braking. As for when they wear out and need to be replaced. The replacement is easy if you know what you are doing if it is your first time allow a good 3-4 hours as drums have lot of springs and clips. Also when replacing shoes it is always good to replace all hardware while you are at it. As for the usefulness if repair manuals if you are a novice they are the most amazing thing ever. For more experienced people they usually don't have the specific information you would find in the Toyota manual as they are usually generic to lots of similiar models like (Silverado, Tahoe, Sierra, Yukon all in one manual). Hope this helps

[shoujiliuzhijun]

More difficult than front disc brakes. There're some springs to deal with, and two of them are very tight. Ericthecarguy on Youtube has many drum brake video, and I remember the 2002 PT Cruiser one is my favorite because it covers a lot of details.

I'm using the Chilton manual. At that price, I think it a good reference. But usually before I do any work, I'll take a look at another instruction.

[dvd7e]

Originally Posted by hardtopte72

Your rear is drum brakes. 4MM is nearly brand new (new is 5mm-6mm depending on the car) on drum brakes especially tiny drums like on a 9th gen corolla. No need to replace them. Remember the car is FWD so the front of the car has the bulk of the weight and does 80% of the braking. Drum brakes normally last over 100000 miles. Just remember to clean and adjust them regularly (every 10-15k miles) and make sure the backing plate is lubed so you do not have any squeaks or rattles when braking. As for when they wear out and need to be replaced. The replacement is easy if you know what you are doing if it is your first time allow a good 3-4 hours as drums have lot of springs and clips. Also when replacing shoes it is always good to replace all hardware while you are at it. As for the usefulness if repair manuals if you are a novice they are the most amazing thing ever. For more experienced people they usually don't have the specific information you would find in the Toyota manual as they are usually generic to lots of similiar models like (Silverado, Tahoe, Sierra, Yukon all in one manual). Hope this helps

Any good references on how to clean and adjust the brake drums, or how to lube (brand?) the back plate?

As luck would have it, today I started getting a funny sound out the rear wheels/brakes. I only hear it when braking, and only when braking relatively hard (i.e. when coming to a stop.) If I just tap my brakes, like to slow down a bit on the highway, I don't hear it. This makes me think it's the rear brakes. But as far as I can tell, it's only coming from the left side of the car. It may be coming from the right side (passenger) as well, but I mostly just hear it on the left.

Anyways, the sound is like a thud-thud-thud-thud sound that definitely seems dependent on the wheels rotating (e.g. as the car slows down, the sound slows down). Almost like baseball cards in the spoke of a bicycle wheel, except it's a heavy/dampened out sound.

Any thoughts of what it could be? Or any ideas on what I could do to investigate it? I can take the wheel off and poke around, but I'm not very brake literate, so I don't know what the rear brakes SHOULD look like.

Thanks!

[hardtopte72]

That could be one of any number of things. It could be a wheel bearing, broken hardware, lack of lube(causing the noise when the shoe shifts), or chunks off of shoe broken off.

As for the clean and adjust I could do a DIY with pics when i do mine next week. It is fairly simple.

You will need
Brake Parts Cleaner(1-2 Cans)
Sand Paper
Tooth Brush
Bucket to catch brake dust and brake cleaner
Multipurpose Grease
Brake Spoon (normally 3-5 bucks at Autozone)
Long Skinny Flathead screwdriver
Gloves
Rags

Step 1. Jack up rear of the car and secure it on jackstands and remove both rear wheels.

Step 2. Remove Drum. You can do this by either using a hammer and hitting the face of the drum(not lugs) until it comes free or using 2 bolts inside the threaded holes of the drum and evenly one a time screwing in the bolts until the drum comes free.

Step 3. Apply your brake cleaner liberally to the inside of the drum. While you do this use your toothbrush to brush the wheel cylinder, shoes, backing plates, and anywhere you can reach with the toothbrush. Spray more brake cleaner until everything is pretty clean.

Step 4. After making sure the brake clean is dry, using your sandpaper (not sure of the grit but nothing too fine) sand the facings of the shoes until the glazing is removed and you see a generally even layer of yellow dust. Once both shoes look even spray brake cleaner liberally to remove all the dust.

Step 5. Lube the backing plates. This is the hardest part as you dont want to get any lube on the facings of the shoes. Basically what i do is a small brush or the cardboard of a cereal or oil filter box and spread grease on it. Using your brake spoon pry the shoe away from the backing plate without damaging the facing(if you do just sand a little again after lubing). You will need to pry at the top middle and bottom of the shoe. You will see 3 distinct areas at the top middle and bottom where the pad contacts the backing plate(usually you will see the rust spots from metal to metal contact. Apply a thin layer of lube to these areas on both shoes on both drums, as well as the center circle where the drum and wheel mount. A total of 8 areas will be need lube.

Step 6. Adjust your parking brake. After you put your drum back on put your wheel on as well and tighten the lugs hand tight while the car is still in the air. You will then go under the car to the backside of the backing plates near the brake line. You should see a larger black rubber grommet or a square ovaled hole next to the brake line. From there you will stick in your flathead screwdriver and after finding the teeth on the adjuster turn the adjuster. IIRC you will need to click the screwdriver from up to down to turn the adjuster(just make sure you hear it clicking). Here is the key to proper adjustment. You will need to spin the wheel while turning the adjuster. The brakes are properly adjusted when the wheel makes around 1-1.25 revolutions before it stops. If it is any less the brake might start to drag.

Step 7. Lower your car and tighten the wheels the 76 lb/ft of torque.

Step 8. Go inside your car and pull your ebrake and admire how much lower it is. The ebrake should be in neighborhood for 3-5 clicks. Pull it up and down around 3 times to even the adjuster out.

Step 9. Go for a test drive and check out your new found tightness in your brake pedal(depending on how out of adjustment they were).

You are now good for another 10-15k miles.


Hope this helps.

[i4getlots]

i know this is an older post, but i just did this on my wifes 05 corolla. well i replaced the everything. except for the springs, as i did not get a new hardware kit. (may be relevant)
however, now i have a soft brake pedal, aka extra pedal effort to stop. i assume this just means i didnt adjust the brakes properly. or do i need to bleed the system??

[MasterTecInSTL]

DVD, my '03 has well over 100k on it and the rear brakes still look almost new. I doubt seriously you need new brakes in the rear although since you're complaining about noise while braking back there I have to wonder if the shop who inspected them might have broken something (or taken something off) in the process of removing the drums to inspect them. They may have broken the adjuster by trying to loosen them. Who knows. It definitely needs to be inspected, and cleaned and adjusted if nothing is wrong.

I4, by all means bleed and adjust the rear brakes. There is a rubber grommet on the backside of the backing plate you remove and access the adjuster through that hole. You want to adjust it until the shoes are JUST BARELY starting to touch the drums. Spin the wheel as you adjust it and the very second you feel any kind of resistance the adjustment is good.

[i4getlots]

thanks for the response! i readjusted the rear brakes today and felt a difference, although my wife didn't notice a difference. so i'll be bleeding the brakes on friday. another quick question, the brakes smelled wicked bad after i test drove it and parked. what is this smell? is it something i did wrong?

[hardtopte72]

Originally Posted by i4getlots

i know this is an older post, but i just did this on my wifes 05 corolla. well i replaced the everything. except for the springs, as i did not get a new hardware kit. (may be relevant)
however, now i have a soft brake pedal, aka extra pedal effort to stop. i assume this just means i didnt adjust the brakes properly. or do i need to bleed the system??

Once when I did the rear brakes I accidentally popped open a wheel cylinder when the shoe forced one side out by slamming the other side under spring tension. I moved the shoe off and put it back together. But that brake pedal was spongy. I bled them and they were good as new. You may just want to bleed them. If they werent adjusted properly you would have a low brake pedal but it shouldn't be soft for the most part. I would start with bleeding the brakes at all 4 corners starting from the RR to LR to RF to LF then adjusting the brakes.

[MasterTecInSTL]

Originally Posted by i4getlots

thanks for the response! i readjusted the rear brakes today and felt a difference, although my wife didn't notice a difference. so i'll be bleeding the brakes on friday. another quick question, the brakes smelled wicked bad after i test drove it and parked. what is this smell? is it something i did wrong?

If you adjusted them too tight that will create a bad smell, however brake cleaner solvent can cause a smell as well. Jack up the rear and make sure neither wheel has excessive resistance while spinning and if not then the smell will probably go away on its own.

If the wheel stops spinning within half a turn after trying to spin it by hand then it is too tight.

You can also check it by driving on a very slight incline and putting the transmission in neutral. Make sure no one is behind you and let it coast until it slows and stops and then goes backwards. You should notice a smooth transition from rolling forwards to stopping to rolling backwards. If you feel it kind of jerk to a stop and then not want to roll backwards then you have the brakes too tight.

[touringcamry]

Originally Posted by hardtopte72

Your rear is drum brakes. 4MM is nearly brand new (new is 5mm-6mm depending on the car) on drum brakes especially tiny drums like on a 9th gen corolla. No need to replace them. Remember the car is FWD so the front of the car has the bulk of the weight and does 80% of the braking. Drum brakes normally last over 100000 miles. Just remember to clean and adjust them regularly (every 10-15k miles) and make sure the backing plate is lubed so you do not have any squeaks or rattles when braking. As for when they wear out and need to be replaced. The replacement is easy if you know what you are doing if it is your first time allow a good 3-4 hours as drums have lot of springs and clips. Also when replacing shoes it is always good to replace all hardware while you are at it. As for the usefulness if repair manuals if you are a novice they are the most amazing thing ever. For more experienced people they usually don't have the specific information you would find in the Toyota manual as they are usually generic to lots of similiar models like (Silverado, Tahoe, Sierra, Yukon all in one manual). Hope this helps

The Corolla being FWD has nothing to do with the front brakes wearing faster than the rears unless you are driving by pressing both pedals at the same time. It is due to weight transfer towards the front during braking.

My bicycle is RWD and most of the weight is on the rear wheel and the front brakes still wear quicker than the rears. Using only the rear brake, whether on a bicycle or car, will increase stopping distances probably by at least an order of magnitude.

[hardtopte72]

Originally Posted by touringcamry

The Corolla being FWD has nothing to do with the front brakes wearing faster than the rears unless you are driving by pressing both pedals at the same time. It is due to weight transfer towards the front during braking.

My bicycle is RWD and most of the weight is on the rear wheel and the front brakes still wear quicker than the rears. Using only the rear brake, whether on a bicycle or car, will increase stopping distances probably by at least an order of magnitude.

I never made a correlation between the car being FWD and the brakes wearing faster in the front. I made a correlation between the car being FWD and doing 80% of the braking because of the added weight (vs a RWD car which may do 60/40 braking and has more weight in the rear). And I made another correlation between cars with drum brakes in the rear having those brakes last a longer amount of time (vs. with disc brakes). After reading my post and plain knowing the way braking systems work I wouldn't have made that correlation.

However using physics as well a RWD or RR car (lets say a Porsche 996 for example) is going to have a much larger bias to braking in the rear than a Corolla or Camry. This is due to more weight being on the rear. If too much of the braking bias was on the front (the side with less weight) the front brakes would lock excessively as the RR suspension has made it so there is less front end diving on braking. This is mostly true for RWD vehicles except for maybe large pickups like a Dodge Ram which would be somewhere in between (75/25 or 70/30). They still wear the front brakes faster than the rear. But the rear wears faster than those on a FWD car.

I know the the front brakes on a 9th Gen Corolla wear faster than the rears just as the front brakes on a 4th Gen Corolla (RWD) wear faster than the rears. And the same can be said of Tacomas, Tundras, and IS350s, Camrys, Siennas and almost all cars except for maybe some high performance cars which have specially designed pads to wear that way.

[shoujiliuzhijun]

I made the same mistake. After I finished the job, I immediately did the bleeding. One of the springs is extremely tight and it cost me a lot of time and strength. If the two shoes are not properly positioned against each other, one side can pop open.

I also had the soft feeling even after the bleeding, but I just did several "back-up-and-brake", plus some brake stop when moving forward by hand brake (at low speed of course). Within a few days, everything went back to normal.

Originally Posted by hardtopte72

Once when I did the rear brakes I accidentally popped open a wheel cylinder when the shoe forced one side out by slamming the other side under spring tension. I moved the shoe off and put it back together. But that brake pedal was spongy. I bled them and they were good as new. You may just want to bleed them. If they werent adjusted properly you would have a low brake pedal but it shouldn't be soft for the most part. I would start with bleeding the brakes at all 4 corners starting from the RR to LR to RF to LF then adjusting the brakes.