I m having some difficulty with a CEL. About 6mo ago CEL popped up with p0441,p0442 and p0446. Very nice woman at autozone suggested a gas cap, so I bought one. Cleared the codes and about 250mi later: hello CEL. Ran the codes again and it was p0441 (incorrect purge)and p0442 (leak) only this time..... 2 outta 3 ain't bad....
So today I spend the ENTIRE day working on this car. Traced every inch of vacuum line and pressure tested, electrically and pneumatically tested all 3 VSV, pneumatic test of the canister........ EVERYTHING checks out. ECM? I am totally lost. I would take it in for eval/smoke test, but I don't think they even look at these cars anymore, I think they just guess at the problem. I could do that! LOL
others will hopefully chime in with better suggestions than this, but with the frequency of this being a gas cap issue, I would try yet another cap. Also put it on real tight, and make sure the cap and fuel inlet are smooth.
if worse comes to worse you can disconnect the battery an hour or a day before your inspection in hopes that the cel does not come back before they test it. The inspection will show that not all of the systems have had a chance to register a cel since the reset, but you are allowed (in TX anyway) a max of three such readings. Not sure about NC.
Thanks! I read the pdf and I am a little confused. Is this the common failure for p0441? Like I said in the original post, I have checked just about everything else. Should I just go ahead and buy this thing? Is it hard to replace? Do I have to drop the tank? If I take it to the dealer, will it be expensive? Awe man this whole thing is just crappy: you work hard to pay off your car and then you can't get it inspected because of some crappy phantom failure.
I wouldn't do anything until you clean and make sure the existing filler pipe end is smooth as can be, try a new different brand gas cap, and try a new tankful of gas as well.
I wouldn't do anything until you clean and make sure the existing filler pipe end is smooth as can be, try a new different brand gas cap, and try a new tankful of gas as well.
No corrosion everything looks clean and the system holds pressure. I did the pressure test outlined in the service manual and I got good pressure relief at the tank....
Now that I am thinking about it, I don't hear the pressure relief when I stop for gas like I used to and when I turn the car off, I hear like a moaning or gurgling from the rear of the car. The more I think of this I think it may be the ECM not telling the solenoids when to open and close properly.
if worse comes to worse you can disconnect the battery an hour or a day before your inspection in hopes that the cel does not come back before they test it. The inspection will show that not all of the systems have had a chance to register a cel since the reset, but you are allowed (in TX anyway) a max of three such readings. Not sure about NC.
Every state is different. Here in Missouri we're allowed 2 monitors to be "not ready" if it's 96-00 and only 1 monitor to be "not ready" if it's 01+. If his area does not allow for any "not ready" monitors (such is the case in many "green" states) then it's a moot point anyway.
Keep in mind that usually the EVAP tests only run if the gas tank is between 15% and 85% full so "theoretically" you could fill the tank up completely and clear the light and then fill the tank back up every day for a few days and that should prevent the EVAP monitor from running (and preventing a CHECK ENGINE light and code from setting) until taking the emissions test while allowing all of the other monitors to run.
Of course while this may get him through his test it does absolutely nothing to actually fix the problem.
The Following User Says Thank You to MasterTecInSTL For This Useful Post:
A P0441 is on that (key off) EVAP system is only set when the purge vsv is stuck open or closed... I would replace that vsv first before you do anything else... Check for disconnected, damaged or loose purge line connecting the vsv to the intake. Check for restriction in purge line. Check for stuck open or closed vsv.
A P0441 is on that (key off) EVAP system is only set when the purge vsv is stuck open or closed... I would replace that vsv first before you do anything else... Check for disconnected, damaged or loose purge line connecting the vsv to the intake. Check for restriction in purge line. Check for stuck open or closed vsv.
The VSV at the canister is fully functional: resistance good pin-to-pin, no leakage to ground, solenoid functions with battery voltage, checked airflow good.... flow when not active, no flow active.....
Would you still replace it? Could it be malfunctioning even though it passes all of the checks? Its only $20, so I'm not opposed to trying it out.
The VSV at the canister is fully functional: resistance good pin-to-pin, no leakage to ground, solenoid functions with battery voltage, checked airflow good.... flow when not active, no flow active.....
Would you still replace it? Could it be malfunctioning even though it passes all of the checks? Its only $20, so I'm not opposed to trying it out.
Thanks
20 bucks? lol... I don't ever recommend aftermarket electronic parts. How did you check the airflow of the vsv? It is electronic so it definitely could be an intermittent problem. Is the 441 code pending or a hard code or both?
20 bucks? lol... I don't ever recommend aftermarket electronic parts. How did you check the airflow of the vsv? It is electronic so it definitely could be an intermittent problem. Is the 441 code pending or a hard code or both?
I activated it with battery power and I blew into it with a piece of clean hose. I couldn't get any air thru it when it was closed and I could easily blow thru it when it was open. The other thing I need to check is the voltage at the VSV. I guess the ECM switches the grounds on these solenoids, so just probing the connectors doesn't tell you much as far as if they are getting power or not.
As far as aftermarket, I don't really know if it matters. Its an OEM part that failed right? Seriously though, any help is greatly appreciated.
I was thinking of taking this to the dealer for a diagnostic, but I have been told that they will simply replace the most common cause of failure, ie: cannister, then VSV, ..... Is this true? or will they actually try to troubleshoot to the component level?
At my dealership we didn't. We actually ran through the unbelievably long EVAP test. We also smoke test the system.
I have seem this plenty of time and I can almost guarantee it is either the Filler Tube or the VSV. If you could try and get a picture or look at your filler tube versus say a 2005 or 2007 Corolla. You should see the difference. It may not be easy to know your filler tube is corroded if you look at it everyday. And remember these leaks have to be "VERY" small to trigger a check engine light. So although you checked it with air smoke will be the best test.
And the VSV failing could be intermittent (although it usually will have showed you it is failed by now).
Depending on the vehicle some VSV's are grounded and some are given power by the ECU.
Let someone smoke test it and see if you can figure it out.
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