4agze Help Somebody - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

BigNate1102 · 05-12-2009, 12:16 PM

i have a fwd corolla with a 4agze swap well the problem is is that when my jdm engine source sent my engine they cut the axles pretty close to the boot. no biggie right? well i thought i could have found them reasonably but that didnt happen so i decided to go with custom axles but now im starting to have doubts that the tranny is lsd equipped if its not then in goes the c series. ok so i need you guys' help finding out exactly what i have ok the shafts come from an ae92 4agze map dli from what i uunderstand is the ae101 uses different axles here are some pictures. please help i dont want to waste a million dollars on axles for a tranny thats none lsd. you guys are the experts

BigNate1102 · 05-12-2009, 12:17 PM

sorry about the pictures couldnt get them any smaller

toyotaspeed90 · 05-12-2009, 02:19 PM

I'm intrigued by what you have there.... I can't really tell the spline diameter.....

shows C versus E series....

granted this E series is from an AW11, but should be very close to what was stock. I don't remember 100% from my old LSD e58 (which had cut axles -- actually the reason I got rid of it) but I thought it also had "serviceable" axles as the AW11's are (note that the tulip unbolts from the input shaft section).

Blof-fan · 05-12-2009, 02:42 PM

If you could post pics of the tranny, than we might be able to see if it's an LSD gearbox

If you see this, when you look into the gearbox entry for the shaft. Big chance it's an LSD (non-LSD's have a little bar runnig through the centre)

BigNate1102 · 05-12-2009, 06:10 PM

ok well as soon as get a chance i will post pictures of the tranny kinda frustrating because i just dropped and aligned things already. or can i just take a picture of where the input shaft goes. also my tranny has a black tin covering on the end like

from what i understand 89yotarollagts has the same black tin covering see

these are definitely lsd with thanks from http://ozone1000.com/blue_frame_weights.htm mine look exactly like the top ones damn i hope i dont get sued for stealing pics lol

BigNate1102 · 05-12-2009, 06:23 PM

or does all e series have that case?

4doorGTS · 05-12-2009, 11:55 PM

Ok because I have been going through this for awhile now and there is alot of misinformation out there(even in this thread already) I will try to lay out some of what I know to be fact, but not all of this is. I have owned myself one time or another a non-LSD E51, two non-LSD E58's, and a LSD E58. Alot of this information belongs to deeoh from this and other forums.

All 4agze equipped ae92/ae101's came with a "E" series transmission.

Early models got the E51 while later model ae92 and all ae101 got the E58.

E51 have an aluminum side cover, E58 have a black steel side cover.

E51's and E58's came with non-LSD or LSD as an option I believe.

ae92 E-58's and E51's have a mechanical speed sensor, ae101 E-58's have a electric speed sensor.

Now here is where so much confusion lays because people don't take the time to learn the facts about what they have or are repeating heresay.

non-LSD E51's and E-58's will have a flat piece with a hole through it when looking through where the axle goes.

E51's and E58's with LSD have a hexagonal rod going through the diff when looking through where the axle goes.

E51 and E58 non-LSD axles will interchange with eachother.

E51 and E58 LSD axles will interchange with eachother.

non-LSD and LSD axles will NOT interchange with eachother. Has to do with spline length and I believe diameter.

Now you can tell the difference between non-LSD and LSD axles by the drivers side axle. LSD axles will have the spline continue all the way through the machined "step" and non-LSD axles will only have about half machined in(see pictures below)

Now there is always the chance that your transmission has the flat piece with the hole through it but is LSD. This would be from a aftermarket LSD unit and is the cause of some mis-information I'm sure. What I have wrote above is for oem toyota parts.

Here are some pictures to make things easier.

non-LSD axles on the top and LSD axles on the bottom. You can see the difference in spline length on the drivers side is more noticeable(Right side)

This is what you would see with a LSD trans.

And of course I could be forgetting stuff so if anyone has anything to add please do.

Blof-fan · 05-14-2009, 11:30 AM

And this is where the confusion starts

Hate to tell you this 4doorGTS but I do believe you have got it exactly the oher way around

Have you ever opened up one of those gearboxes?

Yes. All 4A-GZE engines came with a E-series gearbox (Stronger gearbox than the C-series, neccecary for the torque the SC engine delivers)
And yes, LSD was an option on the E58. So having an E58 is not a garantuee that you have an LSD gearbox!

The flat piece with the hole is the LSD equiped E58 gearbox.
The rod belongs to the open diif in the non-LSD gearbox.

Some pictures to make my case

:
(These pictures are from my own site, and from my own projects.)

On the right side, we have an open diff (non-LSD) with the rod, connecting the gears.
On the left an Quaife aftermarket ATB LSD (helical)

Now before people start shouting: Yes, these Diffs are from a C52 gearbox. (I opened mine up, revised it and swapped the diff. for an Quaife ATB LSD.

But I can asure you, that the open diff in the E-series trannys have the same built up as the open diff in the C-series (thus with the rod).

If I remember correctly (But I'm not completly sure about that yet. Will be when I have opened up my E58). Toyota put helical LSD's in their factory gearboxes aswell.

Here is a cut through of a helical LSD:

As you can see: no rod but a hole.
And even if they didn't use helical LSD's but friction type LSD's. Here is a pic of such a LSD aswell:

Again: No rod, but a hole

Now I do know that models may vary from different manufacturers and such. But the overall lay-out is mostly the same.

As for the axles...The picture I posted earlier in this thread is from my own E58 gearbox witch I believe has a factory LSD.
Now I do have a picture of the drivers side axle, but it's hard to tell from it. But this has the above mentioned 'shorter' splines:

So these would have come with the LSD gearbox. I know this sounds weird as you would think the longer splines would be more sturdy as the splines give more surface to distribute the load.
As I'm typing this, I am thinking that this might not be true.
The splines are mechanically more likly to break or twist, as the solid centre is smaller in diameter over a bigger lenght (and splines do not provide radial strength). So the axles with the shorter splines can probably handle a bit more abuse as the solid diameter is bigger. (Just thinking out loud, have no way of proving this offcourse.)

I'm wondering if the countersplines in the gearbox are longer aswell with the longer splines or that they are not fully used, in witch case it would be a weak spot.

BigNate1102 · 05-14-2009, 06:31 PM

ok this is building to be one of the more informative threads the info blofan gave makes me believe that my tranny is lsd

BigNate1102 · 05-14-2009, 06:36 PM

i still really dunno so ok heres what it boils down to i want to get axles built from the cut end out (see pics)^^^. should i? if its none lsd should i just use the c series? or will the torque ruin it? i need you guys honest opinion. you 6th gen guys have been a huge help whereas the 7th gen guys just ignored my thread. and if i did use the (E) what axles parts should i use to complete the rest of the axle any suggestions? thanks

BigNate1102 · 05-14-2009, 06:41 PM

and even if its none lsd should i still fab the axles? any aftermarket lsd for e58 in america

4doorGTS · 05-14-2009, 11:00 PM

@ Blofan

I don't know what to tell ya dude I have two E58's right now with the hole through the center and when I put an axle in one side and turn it forward the other side turns in the opposite direction meaning that if it has LSD its not a helical unit it would have to be a clutch type. My known LSD E58 has a rod through the hole when looking into where the axle goes and with the axles in they both turn in the same direction. Same happens when I turn the input shaft of the trans. both axles turn in one direction. I thought toyota used helical LSD's in all the "E" series transmissions incl. the aw11?

When I have time I will tear down one of the E58's with the hole through the center and see what we have.