4AGE 16v Typewriter Sound (knock) after cold start - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

slack3r · 05-14-2009, 07:26 PM

I have a 4AGE 16V Redtrop (small port) which is bone stock. Everything runs fine and it has power. All sensors working and doing a Diagnosis shows a blinking CEL. Only mod is a lightened flywheel by 1Kg.

One problem is that there is some sort of typewriter sound (sounds like someone is using/typing on a typewriter) after the cold start but when the engine warms up the sound is barely noticable. Haven't got a clue what's causing this.

I had check the connecting rod bearings and they seem fine, how do you know if the connecting rod bearings are broken anyway?

Today we removed the head and cleaned it together with the intake manifold. Didn't have the chance to finish it though so have not checked if the sound disappeared. Changed valve seals and oil seals. From the looks of the head the intake and exhaust seems clean well not so clean on the intake side but acceptable

We removed the pistons and they seem fine from the inside but like I said we haven't put it back all together yet.

I might change the connecting rod bearings aswell. Checked compression and all passed. Checked valve clearance and they seem fine.

Someone suggested that it may be a misaligned crank? Would that cause the sound?

Anyone who had experienced this problem maybe shed some light I am stomped

. The engine revs fine and has power but I am not really pushing it yet since I am bothered with the noise.

***REN69*** · 05-14-2009, 09:15 PM

Could be AFM ticking... valve noise, oil starvation, there's quite a few things that could be doing this.

slack3r · 05-14-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REN69

Could be AFM ticking... valve noise, oil starvation, there's quite a few things that could be doing this.

I don't think it oil starvation but that came to mind since the noice goes out or is barely noticable when the engine is hot

Possible valve noise but haven't checked yet since I just changed the valve shims.

slack3r · 05-16-2009, 05:58 PM

Finally found the culprit it was the buckets holding the shims on the intake side numbers 5 an 7 were concaved not sure how and why and they were also loose.

Changed the buckets and set the valve clearance no more noise as of the moment.

Anyone have any idea why they would warp/concave? The middle part is like bulging and the lower part of the bucket shrinks going to the inside part.

slack3r · 07-06-2009, 12:09 AM

I think I spoke too soon.. The sound came back... anyone have any ideas?

Createdtoburn · 07-06-2009, 10:49 AM

I think my car makes the same noise. And the noise increases as my RPM's increase. When I put my ear up to the engine bay it sounds like its coming around the top of the engine somewhere near the fuel rail. A guy told me one time it sounded like fuel injectors sticking or something weird like that. That's prob wrong but I don't know for sure. All I know is that my 89 Corolla right now does it, my 88 Chevy Celebrity V6 did it, and my 92 Celica 4AFE did it, and they all had 190K+ miles. So I'm guessing it's something with age lol.

I hope you figure out the problem so I can too. lol

BLKTACTAC · 07-06-2009, 11:01 AM

What type of oil do you use ? How long have you had it and have you always used the same oil?

Createdtoburn · 07-07-2009, 07:05 PM

I use 5-30 Mobil 1 Synthetic...

BLKTACTAC · 07-07-2009, 08:46 PM

Being a past hipo bike motor builder and also owner of a import speed shop, we notice some high mileage motors making noise on start up. It could be a thousand different things and it looks like you have tried and checked numerous things.

If I am correct and this is only on start up, you have a oil pump issue or try changing oil and see what happens. You all ready using 5-30 so I would stick with that. I am not sure where in the US you live, but there are other options depending or you local climate. As long as you have good oil pressure, I would tell one of my customers not to worry, especially after all you have checked. This is just my humble opinon

4dRcOrOlLA · 07-07-2009, 09:31 PM

i dont know it sound like ur injectors, it probably getting old or dirty; jus try sum injectors cleaner c if tha help
ps feel on the rails if u can feel it tappin or somthin hope tis help G/L

slack3r · 07-12-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Createdtoburn

I think my car makes the same noise. And the noise increases as my RPM's increase. When I put my ear up to the engine bay it sounds like its coming around the top of the engine somewhere near the fuel rail. A guy told me one time it sounded like fuel injectors sticking or something weird like that. That's prob wrong but I don't know for sure. All I know is that my 89 Corolla right now does it, my 88 Chevy Celebrity V6 did it, and my 92 Celica 4AFE did it, and they all had 190K+ miles. So I'm guessing it's something with age lol.

I hope you figure out the problem so I can too. lol

Well the difference with mine is the typewriter sound dies or probably goes silent to a halt when the engine is hot. I don't hear the sound increasing when the RPM increases.

Not sure if it's the connecting rod bearings but like I posted above we did check the conrod bearings and they seem fine. Conrod bearding do make a loud sound specially on high RPM right?

Will try and check my injectors but would that be the case? Would injectors make that weird noise when the engine is started from cold start?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLKTACTAC

What type of oil do you use ? How long have you had it and have you always used the same oil?

The engines been with me for a year already. Have changed the oil twice since I had to check the connecting rod beartings.

I'm using Shell Helix Super 20W-50

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLKTACTAC

Being a past hipo bike motor builder and also owner of a import speed shop, we notice some high mileage motors making noise on start up. It could be a thousand different things and it looks like you have tried and checked numerous things.

If I am correct and this is only on start up, you have a oil pump issue or try changing oil and see what happens. You all ready using 5-30 so I would stick with that. I am not sure where in the US you live, but there are other options depending or you local climate. As long as you have good oil pressure, I would tell one of my customers not to worry, especially after all you have checked. This is just my humble opinon

Oil pressure have not really looked into. Might be a good idea to check since I think 4age 16v has a return hose for the oil. Thanks for the input

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4dRcOrOlLA

i dont know it sound like ur injectors, it probably getting old or dirty; jus try sum injectors cleaner c if tha help
ps feel on the rails if u can feel it tappin or somthin hope tis help G/L

Will try and check my injectors but would that be the case? Would injectors make that weird typewriter noise when the engine is started from cold start?

slack3r · 07-12-2009, 10:49 PM

I forgot I will try to record the sound and will upload it so you guys will have an idea

xxgmsmgxx89 · 07-13-2009, 08:25 AM

Sea Foam!!!

toyotaspeed90 · 07-13-2009, 02:34 PM

The noises are due to the tappets getting worn down past their tolerances... you usually hear it when they're cold because when they heat up the metal expands just enough to stop the noise. This is common on 4age's.

you can tell when a bearing is bad because you will see a copper color coming through the silver bearing.

slack3r · 07-13-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

The noises are due to the tappets getting worn down past their tolerances... you usually hear it when they're cold because when they heat up the metal expands just enough to stop the noise. This is common on 4age's.

you can tell when a bearing is bad because you will see a copper color coming through the silver bearing.

what do you suggest I do? thanks